atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Security, Alarms and Paging Aurora PIRs faulting

I've got two in the system. They bench tested okay with the programming. But on the job site, they went on strike into permanent fault mode.

I wired and soldered a 2K EOLR in the yellow leg of the "R" terminal. They are both programmed for EOLR.

One is about 8' up, I moved the board to position 5 and set the pin to "harsh". This particular PIR is in a lobby area that has ceiling fans to the left, and open glass front to the right, and directly in front are some pretty hot display lights.

The other is in a very small office area. Small enough that proper positioning is a challenge. I first tried near the ceiling in the middle to also catch hallway motion. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. then it went into "perma-fault".

Both are showing faulted even when the red LED indicator is off.

Am I missing something obvious?

Frustrating... I recommend a dual beam for the front, and a door contact on the office door. Client said he wanted PIRs like in his other stores. I recommended dual-techs, especially for the front. Nope. He wanted the "regular basic ones that don't cost any extra".... like in all his other stores.

I'm stumped. I know I am probably missing something obvious or stupid. I'm an idiot.

Client is not happy. All smiles and "kewl-kewl" on the front end... then when it takes more than four hours to install it and make it all work, they starting making noises about "well the other companies ...."

Arg!

Any help?

I do not like the Aurora's in a commercial application, it's just a matter of preference, they are not bad detectors, actually for the price the are very good, but I prefer the dual techs.

As far as troubleshooting, Have you tried removing the loop leads from the PIR and putting a continuity tester across the terminals. This will allow you to test to see if the device is working properly. If they are showing faulted even with the LED out you either have a bad PIR, or bad wiring leading to the PIR. After testing the detectors I would open the cable run on both ends and do a continuity check, first check each lead for shorts to each other, then tie them off on one end and test for a clean loop.

As far as not wanting to pay any extra, if your client does not want to pay to do it properly then you may not want them as a client. This is the same guy that is going to complain constantly about false alarms, and if your system fails because he was to cheep to pay for the right equipment rest assured he will be blaming you.

I agree with you recommendations to him, a dual tech in the front..away from those hot lights and fans, I would consider a ceiling mount in the office, the work well and have great coverage. In reality he is not looking at much of a difference in cost, it is under $200.00. If he is not willing to pay that much more to do it right, I would run away and fast.


Good luck!

I've never had any dealings what-so-ever with those particular detectors so I can't help you with the details any more than Anthony already has as far as trouble-shooting them. Which I think you are already familiar with anyway.

But I will second this: From the situation you described your advise to the client was right on the money as far as the need for dual techs. But apparently you let the customer talk you out of what was right.
Don't feel bad, I don't think a single one of us have not been there more than once!

For us to tell you not to go against your own knowledge is a little late in this particular case so the only way I can see for you to salvage the job is to explain to the customer that going with the original advise you gave them is the best way to go.

anthonyh and TexasTechnician,

Than you both for your very kind replies. Words of wisdom, right there... lessons I'm learning the hard way.

I get so frustrated with tech problems sometimes that I've got to just step away from the problem and then come back to it... go back to the basics and check from "last known good". So your advice on troubleshooting was spot on and a good reminder to me not to get distracted. What's the old saying? An expert is someone who has mastered the fundamentals. Yepp... back to the basics.

The best advice though is what you've both advised about dealing with clients. You are exactly right. I let him talk me out of what I knew was best... and if he didn't want to take that advice, or at least respect it... then I should have taken that as a big warning sign.

When I read what you both wrote, it really got clear for me... "Do I even *want* this guy as a client? Or, should I cut bait and fish somewhere else?"

He started off saying he wanted a small local company that kept their own contracts like myself because he thought he'd get better service in the long run - but now that there's a few hiccups that I've been completely straight with him about... it's "well, the other companies always this and the other companies never that"

I can't help but wonder, now, if the other companies were s great, then why did you call me? Or, ---- did he call those other companies and get the blow off because he is a problem customer?

I've had very similar stuff happen to me with a few commercial clients. I suppose I'm just trying to figure out what dynamic there is going on with some of these folks that I have yet to understand.

I *really* appreciate ya'lls words of wisdom here. I've got some thinking to do in my thinking chair.

Personally when I put my bid together I write it up on what I know needs to be installed to do it right. Sometimes it cost me a job, but most of the time it gets me a happy customer. Trust your judgment and you will be fine.

Best of luck, let us know how it turns out.

As the other 2 have said, I wouldn't use auroras in a professional environment, but I have also never run into one that has gone bad or bad out of box. I use about 2-3 a day on residential jobs.

Are they clear of air ducts? If they are to close to a heating vent they may false when the heat turns on. If they are to close to a hot light the same thing may happen.

Realistically it sounds like more of a wiring problem though. Are they looped together or on separate zones? If are they grounded out anywhere? A common problem I see my techs do, is looping them together with a ripped beanie or no beanie and it will touch the side of the alarm can and ground out causing a fault.

Both are on their own zones and home run to the panel.

There is very likely a wiring issue. I'll have to get back out there and check my continuity.

However, even if I solve that issue...I'm predicting that both will be problems as BOTH are near vents, one is in too small a space... and the other is also near ceiling fans, hot lights, and a glass storefront facing west to a parking lot.

And of course I asked the guy, "Will you have hanging signs, displays, or balloons?" He told me "No." --- and what do I see when I get there? A hanging sign in the west facing window with balloons attached to it directly near an HVAC vent.

:rolleyes:

When I told him that was going to be a problem and why, he blew me off telling me about "the other companies" again. :rolleyes"

all I can say is RUN AWAY and do it fast, let him call one of the "other companies".

Update:

I checked my wires and they were good to go. The front PIR still acted like someone slipped a roofie in it's drink, so I replaced it with a GB.

The other PIR I repositioned and set to standard. I'm not perfectly happy with it, but it quit perma-faulting. I'll see how it works and switch to a ceiling mount, or force the issue on a door contact as things develop.

Client is happier with me now since I did a better job troubleshooting his phone stuff than their non-telephone guy did. My big clue was that the 66 block was terminated with stripped wires and looked like it was punched down with a screwdriver. The guy showed up while I was on site and after some direct questions, finally admitted he didn't even know what line seizure was.

So.. I ended up looking good... there I was knowing enough to know I didn't know something... but knowing more than the folks saying "sure, no problem".

Explains why when I looked at the 66 block, it just didn't look like what I thought it should look like and therefore didn't want to touch it.

He's quit mentioning "other companies" and I think he's finally realized that I am just a LITTLE bit different.

Anyway... lessons learned.... don't let a client talk me out of what I know is right, and don't waste time trying to make an Aurora PIR wok in the field for "non-typical" applications.

Wisdom comes from experience and experience comes from making mistakes, right?

Thats very good that it worked but

FYI: Auroras as with any other motion detectors cannot see hanging baloons, signs, or ceiling fans unless they emit heat.