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#525494 10/22/09 03:41 AM
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Deltron Offline OP
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We just started playing around with VOIP a couple of weeks ago. A couple of things have come to mind.

Who decided line appearances aren't important?
Who decided voice mail shouldn't call your cell phone when you get messages?
Who decided that nobody transfers messages internal to the voice mail system or will do broadcast messages?
Who decided that a huge stack of basic phone features like directed call picked, group call pickup, call cover ring, etc. wasn't important?
Who decided that the ability of installing a phone a couple of thousand feet away from control on 2 wires is a worse setup then a few hundred feet on 8 wires?
Who decided MOH and page ports aren't important?
Who decided just a few programmable buttons are satisfactory?

Not only that, in the last month of learning this stuff I've talked to 4 manufacturers. In all cases I've had calls talking to them that break up, have delays or some other problem. It would seem to me if the manufacturers of the equipment are having voice issues, and they are the guys that should have absolutely the best tech guys, then what real chance do we have of doing an installation that works flawlessly?

I see a few advantages to VOIP but it seems to me they are drastically overshadowed by a massive number of faults, at least for many small business customers.

Somebody tell me I'm wrong here.

--Bill.

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In Many cases it's like using the Space Shuttle to go to 7/11 for for a Slurpee.

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Bill the answer to many of your questions is because it has been designed by computer people,

These computer people do not have a background in SMB pbx/key systems.


Avalon Services
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Quote
Originally posted by Deltron:

Who decided line appearances aren't important?
Who decided voice mail shouldn't call your cell phone when you get messages?
Who decided that nobody transfers messages internal to the voice mail system or will do broadcast messages?
Who decided that a huge stack of basic phone features like directed call picked, group call pickup, call cover ring, etc. wasn't important?
Who decided that the ability of installing a phone a couple of thousand feet away from control on 2 wires is a worse setup then a few hundred feet on 8 wires?
Who decided MOH and page ports aren't important?
Who decided just a few programmable buttons are satisfactory?
The guy who couldn't figure out how to make his VOIP system do all that stuff because of "cryptic configuration files" and "command lines"?

Or maybe there was no option for that in the web interface, so, therefore, it cannot be done.

Everything you listed can be done with VOIP with a bit of know-how (and the right equipment).

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Quote
Originally posted by Avalon:
Bill the answer to many of your questions is because it has been designed by computer people,

These computer people do not have a background in SMB pbx/key systems.
Tell me what modern phone system DOES NOT have a computer running it?

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We just started playing around with VOIP a couple of weeks ago. A couple of things have come to mind.

Who decided line appearances aren't important?
Who decided voice mail shouldn't call your cell phone when you get messages?
Who decided that nobody transfers messages internal to the voice mail system or will do broadcast messages?
Who decided that a huge stack of basic phone features like directed call picked, group call pickup, call cover ring, etc. wasn't important?
Who decided that the ability of installing a phone a couple of thousand feet away from control on 2 wires is a worse setup then a few hundred feet on 8 wires?
Who decided MOH and page ports aren't important?
Who decided just a few programmable buttons are satisfactory?

Not only that, in the last month of learning this stuff I've talked to 4 manufacturers. In all cases I've had calls talking to them that break up, have delays or some other problem. It would seem to me if the manufacturers of the equipment are having voice issues, and they are the guys that should have absolutely the best tech guys, then what real chance do we have of doing an installation that works flawlessly?

I see a few advantages to VOIP but it seems to me they are drastically overshadowed by a massive number of faults, at least for many small business customers.
Somebody tell me I'm wrong here
What systems were you looking at? We have none of these problems.

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My Shoretel system does pretty much all of this. I was even able to connect a small office to our system by connecting a few IP phones with power bricks to their network. The phones even look pretty nice, though I have a couple of users who have moved the phones in out-of-the-way spots as they simply use the Call Manager software and a headset to make/receive calls.

As with anything, it really depends on your needs and the skill of the installer.

We haven't had too many issue with call quality. Prior to installing, I had some reservations about that since I'm using share voice/data circuits from the CLEC.


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AVAYA IP Office does those things. Others do also.
Alot depends on QOS testing before the install, & the installing company.

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Deltron Offline OP
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What systems were you looking at? We have none of these problems.
Really? I'd like to see you plug an IP phone in a 1500' cable and make it work. We just got through contracting a VOIP cable job in a huge warehouse and were amazed at the number of hubs and fiber required to build the backbone.

The good old Vodavi XTS would have just required a simple cable plant without thousands of dollars invested in fiber runs and switches all over the place. You tell me why in the world a warehouse dock phone needs to be IP? I think this customer spent as much on the cable plant and switches as a complete digital phone system would have cost.

I'm sorry but something's wildly out of whack on some of these installs. I understand a few customers can really utilize VOIP but spending a small fortune on this stuff for warehouse phones???

I believe a lot of customers are buying this because of buzzwords, not merits. In all honesty the vast majority of customers I see after 6 months can make and receive calls, most of them still know how to page, a few can do station to station intercom and none of them can speed dial. These same customers need VOIP? Generally we try to sell 30 button phones and put everything on a button. We tell the customer to just push the button versus them having to remember codes. Works well for the small guys.

As far as call quality maybe you have no problems but 4 different manufacturers of equipment had issues on call quality when I talked to them. Maybe your definition of good call quality differs from mine. I consider breaking up, echos, stuttering, etc. to be poor quality. If this is the new standard of acceptability then I definitely need to get out of this business.

We're looking at an IP system and the company has been very good to deal with so far. We'll see how it goes but the more we look into VOIP systems the less I see any reason for them for the vast majority of small businesses. We're getting a number of call from people with say three lines and five phones wanting a VOIP system. You tell me why a transmission shop needs a VOIP system?

PS: I have (had) a pile of 3Com, Cisco, Allworx and some home brew IP systems we've pulled out in our warehouse. The customer's complaints were always exactly the same, too difficult to use and poor call quality. I'm finding few takers from the refurb houses or Ebay to dump this stuff. By the way, not a single box had a page port or MOH port on it, basic phone system interfaces.

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You know you won't get an argument from me.

You tell me why a transmission shop needs a VOIP system?

Because they have been brainwashed. I've yet to sell an IP system and I doubt I ever will. Read some of the posts here. Just the BS involved with making a system work is enough for me.

So you guys who are selling it, good for you. I won't be a part of it because my customers don't need it. If I can't make them can't understand that they can find somebody else.

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
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