atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring need help getting out of a bind before I get into it.

That about covers it. Cabling is not my primary task. I do pickup occasional simple single run pulls, the very occasional residential data install.

I've been asked to do an install in recently rebuilt commercial space before the tenant who I do other work for enters it. I like the tenant, and would like to keep working for them. I have looked at the space, the GC hung boxes and conduit on the opposite sides of the metal studs from the electrical. They are both in metal boxes though, and nothing back to back. About 70% of the rock is on and it is all insulated.

Issue 1) grid is installed at 9', and the bottom of the girders are at about 20'. I can't figure a way to reach the girders to hang anything. I know the cable cannot be on the tiles, but would there be any problem\code for hanging it from the grid stringers supporting the grid?

If I remember right the stringers are 16-18 gauge steel but this much copper would still weigh a lot.

The server room is centrally located. I've figured run lengths for the drops which work out to 115' with planned service loops. Each drop is getting 3 cat6 cables. I feel this is overkill but will do it. An important person wants 6 so they get 6 or maybe 6a. Personal opinion, desktop PCs don't need 1G even if Dell ships them that way now. The company always need more ports in the current space, and this overkill is the cause of that.

It is all being done as data, there are no analog lines except one for one fax and I don't even know where that goes yet. There is no DEMARC anywhere in the space that I can find. There is a phone closet on the other leg of the L shaped building. I should post a picture of that, but I got out too quick (alive).

My thought on process is the following...

Initially string all the cable on the tiles but over any insulated heating or electrical which has its own hangers since it was sensibly done before the grid was in.

Once everything is run, go back though and hang it. It will take longer this way, but then I'll know where hangers are needed. My thought on hanging is to ziptie a long ziptie loop to the stringer. This loop wouldn't be to bundle it, but would be more like a stirrup for the cable. I hope the offset weight will cause enough angled friction to keep the first tie from sliding down the stringer. If I have to I can always add a screw on clamp, I guess.

I plan on specifying Velcro to bundle this.

In the server room, I plan on patch panels on a 2 post rack. cable in though the cener of the ceiling. No one planned for trays, the reason I was told is that they were not needed. :bang:

I think it would make the most sense order wise to punch each cable from a box to a different patch panel on the same port #. That way all of box-1 will be on port-1. To make telling the cables apart easier(support) I was to use 3 colors (blue white and gray), and then wiring the 3-fer at each station the same way. Once again to make supporting it later easier. I will be pin checking all pairs on the install, and maybe renting a real certifying cable tester if I can get them to go for it.

All totaled for all of the cables and drops it looks like about 15,600 feet of cable, or 5,170 for each color.

Besides being crazy to even think about doing it, is the logic sound? The biggest thing I worry about besides the short time I have to locate gear is the hanging issue. I'm about 30% run away, and 70% don't want to loose this customer because they have been a regular source of income for the last 6 months because their last IT guy didn't document any thing.

ALL recommendations would be appreciated and are pre-thanked profusely.

I forgot to add this bit, there are 63 planned drops. for the patch panels I planned on (3) 48 port + (3) 24 port. It was suggested to me that the patches be hung on the wall while everything else would be on racks in the center of the room, and I told them they were nuts, and that I didn't want to have to run patches across to the routers and switches 6 horizontal feet away.

A few things to think about. Do you have enough man power to do this job? You may want to outsource the cable pulling to a company that does this. After all you have to think about moving and setting up the network. You will have to have some kind of extension for the d-marc. IF the ceiling tile guys are still on site they might be willing to add you some grid wires for you to use. YOu don't want to use theres. After time the weight will bend the grid wire causing the ceiling grid to shift. Can you run the drops against the walls? I know it will add some length but it might be a better choice. Are they requiring you to separate out the cables by color? Such as one color for data runs, one color for voice and the 3rd color for extra or printers? If not save the hassle and pull all one color and number your cables with a sharpie. Then it is just a matter punching down cables in order on the patch panels. With this many cables you really need some ladder tray and make sure they use wire management in the closet. Also don' forget about grounding your racks. Since you don't do cabling runs as a living I would think twice about doing it. It might be better to sub the work out and be in charge of it for the customer. That way your keeping your face in front of the customer. It also maybe a very good way to establish some relationships with a company that installs cables but does not do networking. Some other things to keep in the back of your mind are phone systems and alarm companys. You might have to provide dial tone for them.

Sounds like you have a nice project ahead of you.

Have you thought of following the wall structure above the ceiling? Then there are no support wire issues (a lot of jurisdictions will not allow ceiling wire to support anything but the ceiling).

Is the conduit furnished by the GC large enough for all that CAT 6? Are the boxes large enough to not over-bend the cable when it is terminated?

Good Luck.

Why in heck are you planning on so many patch panels for 63 drops?

I agree with sub contracting the work. If you haven't done this scope of work before, then you'll end up with bad results somewhere along the way... just digging your own grave. Think of it this way... if you install the cable incorrectly, do you want to have to go back and troubleshoot it and/or possibly have to pay someone else to troubleshoot it? You would really look bad in the customer's eyes at that point.

Do it once and do it right.

If you want to learn how to do this, the there is no better way than observation... ask the company that you sub it out to, if you can hang with their guys for a day of cable pulling, since you got them the work and want to learn a thing or two about the basics.

Also, with what Dave said... why are you using so many patch panels? Also, what are they using for phone... VoIP? There is no need at all for 3 CAT6 cables at each location... that is BIG overkill.

I think he plans on putting each color cable into its own "sets" of patch panels. As long as the customer is requesting it to be done this way. It would be cheaper and easier just to start numbering cables with a sharpie.

Even at that, I would say 3 patch panels at the most. Either 3 x 24 ports or 2 x 24 ports for voice & Other and 1 x 48 port for Data.

Personally, I wouldn't use a Patch Panel for voice anyway.

I truly believe the OP is over his head on this job and should sub it all out, watch & learn.

Question: Is the client asking for all cat6 or is there a CG somewhere showing his ignorance?

If the OP really wants to "Impress the client", explain the wasted cost of using cat 6 where it is unwarranted AND using fewer panels. Explain it in dollars & cents to the client. Money talks.

i think i read it is 63 locations with 3 cables at each location

You cannot hang you cable from the existing drop ceiling support. That is a violation of the NEC. The only exception would be to install your own support wires from the building steel, then they must be tied to the ceiling grid as well.

I would caution you not to run your cables over the grid and over the exsitng mechanicals. If there are no tiles installed, you risk the chance of knocking the whole grid dowm, depending on how well it is installed. If you run wires over the mechanicals, you'll make those tradesmen very unhappy.