atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Just ripped Cablevision a new you know what

Probably should have put this in the complaint department but it would get better visibility here by anybody comtemplating switching their business to cable company telephone.

Long time customer calls today about switching to cable company telephone (in this case Optimum Voice). He has 20 lines and I know that all those idiots provide is 4 lines on a modem that has RJ-11 jacks for connection. So I'm figuring 5 modems, customer says Cablevision said they will have to provide 8 because of different accounts. Keep in mind that his telecom closet is about 4'x6' and contains the Partner system and crossconnect as well as his server in a rack with switches and patch panels. So my question was "will you be putting an addition on the building?" With all those modems, their backup power, the RG-6 cable wiring and splitters and my wiring and 66 block he is going to need at least another 4 feet of backboard space from floor to ceiling. Customer had no idea.

Is there any reason they can't provide something about the size of a T1 channel bank that handles a couple of dozen lines, has an Amphenol output and one cable input? I'll answer my own question by saying that they get their cable modems from Cisco.

So customer gets Cablevision on the phone and conferences me in. I don't think they have ever had somebody that knows the telecom business give them a piece of their mind.

Basically I let him know that from their equipment to their installers, they have no idea what "business class" phone service is. All the Cablevision rep can say is that they have done jobs like this before to which I replied Oh, I know! Just one example- last week your guys did another customer of mine. They threw everything on the floor and couldn't figure out how to cut over the seven lines so they left with the customer without phone service. They had to call me on an emergency basis to get them connected.

So now my customer is having second thoughts and the cable guy is out of excuses. Customer will be saving about $500 per month and I figure that I'll be the hero here if I can figure out a way to get this done. I tell customer that I'll go there tomorrow to see what can be moved and removed. I also said that I'll be there while the "installers" are there next week "to offer my suggestions". :bang:

All I can say is if you are thinking about cable company phone service for your business be prepared for a mess and to provision the lines and set up hunting yourself through their website. These guys make Verizon look like rocket scientists.

You get what you pay for.

-Hal

Wow. We encounter a lot of similar conversions here with Cox and Comcast, but things usually go pretty well. Their installers don't mind getting smacked around when things don't work right, especially since they really don't know what they are doing anyway. They seem to appreciate the education that we give them.

They use nice outdoor units that are good for four lines. Granted, for twenty lines, they would take up a lot of wall space, but at least they are outside where space isn't an issue. Voice over CATV is not VOIP like many people think around here. It's just running on a different frequency, so channel banks aren't an option to the providers.

On larger accounts, like ones where T1 or PRI circuits are required, the cable companies can't offer them unless they have fiber to the premises. If that is the case, then they can use a traditional channel bank. We are seeing many instances where property managers won't allow the cable companies to bring fiber (or coax for that matter) into the property. Wonder if Verizon has anything to do with that?

On larger accounts, like ones where T1 or PRI circuits are required, the cable companies can't offer them unless they have fiber to the premises.

For that Cablevision has a division called Lightpath which does a pretty good job. They run fiber to the building, locate the channel banks in their own space and run 25 pair to the customers in the building. Lightpath has a few corporate parks around here but that's about it.

I used a channel bank only as an example of a size and configuration that would make multi-line installations practical. There is absolutely no reason that a cable modem cannot be packaged like a channel bank with one cable in and up to 24 POTS lines on an Amphenol out along with an ethernet port.

Cablevision, Comcast and Cox have to be purchasing millions of dollars worth of these things annually. I'm sure if they told Cisco or any other manufacturer that they wanted something like I just described they would have it tomorrow. The problem as I see it is 1) the cable companies don't know any better, 2) it's more cost effective to stock a bunch of four line modems and make them work and 3) they don't care what it looks like.

I think in the future I'm going to make my customers aware of this situation so that they can factor it into their decision. I'm also going to try to make Cablevision aware that they need to clean up their act by telling customers to make sure they complain loudly about the installations when they are unhappy with them. I doubt it will make any difference, but I can tell you that at least this sales rep sure would have been unhappy if he lost this customer because of what I was saying.

-Hal

I am glad you guys brought this up. Time Warner Cable has this thing going also. They call, e-mail me the cut sheet, then tell me when I can be there to cut them over.

Yeah, Right....!!!! :thumb:

The first time that happened they couldn't understand that it is a "tech meet" , their "installer" will call me when he is on site, and I will do my thing.

I DO NOT WORK FOR THEM. :p I work for my customer. The customer pays me, not TWC. I DO NOT call their switch room, touch their equipment, or correct their errors. Once it is tested and verified all lines are working, then I have the customer sign off.

This sets the tone for the whole relationship. The customer knows who has his interests at heart, and who to depend on.

at&t is very far from perfect but still better than TWC.

I had a bad (corporate) experience with Cablevision. I thought that they were utter and complete rectums. (Can I say rectums on a public bulletin board? - If not, please nuke me).

In any event, they so pissed me off that I cancelled my cable service to the house and put in satellite (Dish Network). What a great move! If I would have known in advance how much better (and cheaper) it was I would have done it years before.

They don't have clue.

Sam

Ya know...some of these companies should hire someone that knows what their doing..they might make a buck or two. :shrug:

I stated in this forum many times a few years ago, that when cox started delivering dial tone it was not VOIP, and more less the technology was similar to UDC devices on standard copper pairs. However, within the last year they are no longer installing these devices and handing off 2 port cable modems.

That being said, any customer with more than 2 lines does get a device like channel bank (as Hal was inquiring) with an amphenol connection, supports up to 24 lines... This is Voip.

I will be at a site tomorrow and post the make and model of their unit, which is an 8 port with amphenol connection to a block.

The problem with cable providers and voice installs, are literally the techs. They ought to be searching out retired/laid off bell techs for this instead of last weeks residential CATV installer.

Well you have to remember, they don't pay so this is what they are going to get. No Bell tech is going to want to work for that. They are also trained by people who have little or no telecom background and are sent out with little in the way of proper material. A spool of silver satin line cord, plugs, some CAT5 and some surface mount jacks is all they carry. I doubt many of them even own or know what a punch tool is.

And these are the guys who are going to cut over 20 lines to a 66 block crossconnect? Over my dead body!

-Hal

I'm now a sub contractor for Comcast cable but only when they can't figure out the system,which means the customer has no service ,lines are already ported over and system wire is now torn up or ripped out.the only devices I've seen handle 2 lines each and they stack them on top of each other on any handy place they can find.The average multi line job with 4 or more lines can require 2 or more people and take up to 2 days before they call me to see if I work on that type of system.They have no problem with my visit or hourly charge.
John

Well, my last employer has a TWC PRI, as well as internet access. Eleven B + D, balance is for internet access. Comes in on copper provided by Embarq. Biggest problem we/they have had is last mile or so of old tired aerial/buried Embarq cable, coming down Bragg Blvd. Even the Embarq techs that come out and work the cable pairs confirm the poor condition of their infrastructure. So, when it works (95+% of the time), it works fine. That other 5%, Oh well. Helpful tho, 'cause when we start getting cell phone calls from customers with TWC PRI's, we have a pretty good idea if it's a TWC major failure, or a customer specific failure. Astoundingly, the Fax lines, alarm systems, modems and all the other stuff you expect to be problems, seem to work fine! 'Course they're all working on S/L ports thru the Panasonic TDE, which has replaced the TDA that also worked fine! Too bad my employer is not huge, then he could get a PRI from each of the 4(?) CLECs in town. Could be useful for troubleshooting and configuration problem iron-outs. And of course a couple of real copper L/S and G/S lines for testing. Sometimes, the only way to confirm that a part is really bad is with real Central Office lines/trunks. What the heck, all it takes is $! John C. (Not Garand)