atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Security, Alarms and Paging Initial AV planning (long post, beware)

Hello all -

I'm in the final phases of roughing in my basement; I'm hoping to get the sheet rock up in the next 2 months (depends though, it can wait), I have the carpet in storage; and last to go up will be a drop ceiling.

I'll be putting in 3 plasma TV's (I'm not necessarily set on plasma, but I've had one for nearly 8 years now and it's got a lot of miles on it. It's holding up very well).

Right now, I'm trying to determine what cables I'll need to rough in for each set.

I'm a Uverse subscriber, so the set top boxes will be IP driven. I'll probably pull 2 cat5e cables to each location.

Running the power is a non issue.

What I'm completely clueless about is what to run for audio. The Uverse boxes have:

Optical audio out.
Stereo audio out.
There does not appear to be digital audio coax out.

HDMI, Coax, YPBPR and standard video out.

The set top boxes will have to be located near each display, as they share (at least to my knowledge) the same IR codes. Otherwise I'd probaby just put IR receivers/blasters throughout the room.

I'm assuming what I'll want to do is rough in a spot for each set top box, and run HDMI from it to the plasma. (I think HDMI is the current state of the art in video transmission).

The audio is another issue. The AV center will be located in the center of the room, I'm sure I'll need to use optical audio, but I'm not sure if they make cables that long; approx 15' - 20' from each display to the AV center, with probably another 5'-7' for the drop into the wall. but then again, it is optical. Can't think of why there would be a limit.

What I can't get my mind around is..... mixing 3 seperate optical audio inputs into one amplifier. Obviously, all 3 displays will either have to be tuned to the same channel, or only one in use, as I don't think it would be very entertaining to listen to 3 different audio sources.

But what to do with the 3 of them?

I can't see buying 3 amplifiers, if for no other reason then I'd rather not have 18 speakers (I'd like to have 5.1 for all 3 sets; which makes optical audio mandatory, I suppose).

Do they make amplifiers with multiple optical inputs, or perhaps a switch that feeds the amp? Preferably, one that autmoatically determines which optical cable is active and switches to that one.

The only problem I see here is - what if more than one is active (which I suppose all 3 would be, were I to be watching a football game or something).

Speaker placement will be the next issue, I think I'm going to have to have someone come in, or take detailed drawings/dimensions of the room to someone to determine optical speaker/subwoofer placement. Wall mount, ceiling mount.... at this point I have no idea.

One other question - do I mount standard electrical boxes for the runs from the set top box to the AV center, or is there something more preferable?

Wires coming out of a wall bother me a bit, but I suppose it will all be hidden behind either the display or the set top box.

The AV center wiring is another issue however - I defintely do not want speaker wires just coming through the sheet rock. I suppose the same is true for the optical audio cables.

Any suggestions for how to terminate these runs in the AV cabinet (which is going to be recessed into the wall)?

Well, I guess that's enough for now. Sorry for the rambling post.... I want to do this right, and when it comes to the optical audio feeds I'm pretty much clueless. Actually, except for the 120v and Cat5e, I'm pretty much wandering totally in the dark on all of it.

I guess to sum it up - if you were putting 3 displays in, and you wanted 5.1 surround for each set, how would you set it up?

I'm open to any and all ideas. Money isn't an issue, as it will simply take as long as it takes to save up enough money to do it right. Since I will have a drop ceiling, I can do it one display at a time.

Schedule is no issue either; and finally, I have complete and unobstructed access to run cables anywhere I need to.

TIA for enduring this post.

- Matt

I'm not the one to ask about consumer A/V. I do know there is lots of equipment out there for commercial installations in such venues as meeting and board rooms, bars, etc. It's expensive and I don't think it would meet your requirements for 5.1 sound anyway.

I think HDMI is the current state of the art in video transmission.

Well, maybe if you are Hollywood and pro Digital Rights Management. It gets real difficult to distribute HDMI from one source to several monitors particularly if the monitors have different native resolutions. That's why component is used in these instances. But because it doesn't support DRM you will not have the ability to view some HD sources at full resolution or at all. This can be a particular issue with BlueRay that supports 1080P.

-Hal

Hal -

I'll google a bit today and see if I can become a bit more knowledgeable.

I hate DRM.

Thanks!
Matt

Matt -

As an option why not put in conduit (either emt, or "smurf tube") as home runs back from each set location to the A/V center? This will future-proof you.

I can't help you much with this. Analog audio out is just stranded wire (no shielding required - just keep them separate from the inputs [not in the same pipe either]). You could even run 16 gauge stranded electrical cable.

There are a lot of faceplates that you can buy that come with all the attachments for terminations. All mount on standard electrical boxes.

I have been told (but don't know for sure) that the optical audio is Multimode fiber. It should be available in any length you want, but it may be significantly cheaper to go to a catalog dealer rather than to a retailer.

Good luck!


Sam

Thanks Sam!

I was thinking about the conduit option, it will look neater, and as you say, will future proof me.

Thinking about maybe using flexible (not BX, the gray "rubber" type) conduit though - I learned a long time ago steel conduit is not something for me to mess with, and PVC is a bit of a hassle as well. You see, the mysteries of a tape measure are something I've never been able to fathom. Measure 10 times, cut once. Cut once, too short, that is.

I'm thinking 1" I.D. should do it.

Agree about the pricing - that stuff ain't cheap, even for just a 1.5' patch cable.. I'm hoping it is available in "spool" type quantities, with the ability to snap on the plastic connectors. But if you have to be as precise as you do with the type of fiber you guys deal with.... that's not an option.

Thanks for the tips!

- Matt

MAtt, I would first start buy installing 3 cat5 runs to each set plus power, I would also use a recessed outlet for power. Use low voltage brackets for everything else. If you can run smurf tube it is a good idea. I say 3 cat5's because you can use one of them to run your ir repeater kit , and the other two can be used with a converter for just about any other signal you want. I would install your uverse receivers as well all other components in your av rack. you then control them via the IR repeater, make sure you mask the ir flashers once they are installed. As far as surround sound to each set, I would use three receivers and three sets of speakers, assuming they are in different rooms. connect your components to the av receiver and the run your HDMI cable (if using 1080P) or RGB with a set of audio cables to the screens. you can then use the av receiver to switch video sources. If all three of your sets are in one room and you want to just use on av receiver and set of speakers it is going to get a bit more difficult, you will need to use an a/v matrix switch. something like
this

Thanks Anthony -

Roger on the 3 cat 5's. Good point on the recessed outlet - thanks!

One question on putting the uverse recivers in one location - won't tht cause all of them to change channels at the same time? I know I can curently use any of the remotes to control any of the boxes. Oh wait... something just occured to me - are you talking about mounting an IR "button" to the face of each receiver? That would do the trick. Which brings up aoher question - how many IR receivers should I mount up? One on each wall?

All the sets are in the same room. I took a look at the link you sent - maybe I don't get it (I'm sure I don't)... but would this device be able to handle 5.1? I thought you had to have digital out/in for 5.1, and this device only seems to handle stereo in.

Thanks!
Matt

Anthony -

Looks like this will work:

Switch

Thanks for pointing me to that site - they have everything I need.

- Matt

Matt, it would be one IR receiver per flat screen..once you mount the flasher on the uverse boxs, you can mask them, either wth pre made mask or just some black tape, that will allow them to work individually. As far as the 5.1. I would actually run everything for audio into your a/v receiver. you then use the matrix switch to determine what signal is being sent to the receiver. If you really want to get into it you canlook at creston controlers or control 4. they will both do what you want but are a bit $$$$ and you will most likley need to hire someone to program them. The switch you posed will do the audio but only to 1 screen...it only has one output.

Thanks Anthony -

I think I'm in a bit over my head on this.

Would I mount an IR receiver next to each plasma, which is then "cat5'd" back to the AV center, which is then converted back into IR, and a transmitter is placed over the IR reciever in each set top box?

Also, I've experimented with IR Receivers/transmitters before.... had real problems with the plasma interfering with the signal..... is this still an issue?

Also I'm probably going to want to do other things with the IR ... lighting control, amp control, etc.... does this require other IR recievers?

Sorry for being so clueless.

Here's the amp I'm considering (not necessarily from this vendor). Any thoughts? I was thinking since it's got 3 optical audio inputs, it will eliminate the need for other switching devices.

Marantz

Anyway, as I said, I'm clueless. But I'm basically shooting for the top end here... short of theater seating, I want this room to be the definition of state of the art. I hate the idea of paying someone to do the install, not because of the $$$, but because I want to know how it all works.... I think I have to go make friends with google for awhile... do you know of any AV 101 sites I can browse?

Thanks
Matt