atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Outside Plant OSP Construction Qwest pair counting?

Can any former Qwest techs share the method/insanity that they use to figure pair numbers on the F2 side? I had about 2 weeks where I would be told a line was on pair 100 (for example) and check the corresponding pair on the entrance, but it would be on pair 15 or so. The pair actually was on 100 in the cross box, at what point do they renumber/flip pairs?

It happens a lot, especially when there is a smaller NID count. Some LEC's use even 12 pair NIDS that correspond to a hard pair count, but the actual pair numbers are completely different. For example, the pair count of the terminal in the pedestal or pole terminal may have been 101-125 of an F2 count, but the drop cable to the NID may have had pair 15 connected to the first pair in the pedestal and so on.

They usually try to keep things consistent, but sometimes an LST (Line Station Transfer) may be required to move existing in-service pairs "out of the way" so everything stays color-to-color. If there are too many LST's required, they sometimes just wing it and "frog" pairs around to just get the service in. Sure, that creates a maintenance nightmare, but these days, speed and cost savings is king with telcos.

I guess what I should have said is that actual cable counts are usually from the box to the last terminal feeding the address; from that point to the physical premises, anything goes.

I don't know why they would even give you the physical F2 pair number. As Ed stated it really has nothing to do with what pair it is on the NID, unless the NID has a dedicate pair count. Say you have two 25 pair RJ25X's with the orange covers, both are labeled 1-25 (on the cover), but really the second one is 26 to 50 as far as telco DEMARK count goes. But as far as CABLE count goes it could be anything. The cable count changes at each, bridge, cross connect or cable pair count change. If they aren't labeling the DEMARK correctly than that's what you need to jump them about. Hope that all makes a little sense.

We are a data CLEC in addition to telephone system installation. We order loops for DSL service. On the most recent episode of creativity, the building has a 200 pair entrance. On the previous one it was a 25 pair entrance. In the area we order most of the lines to, they are all multiples of 25 pairs. I don't think they are intentionally giving me the F2 pair count, but it seems like if the F2 number is 110, it should be on red/slate on one of the four blocks in the building.

If they're telling you the count of the 200 pair entrance cable/DEMARC is 1-200 or 100-300 yes it should be on the red slate pair, group would be different depending on the count. If the building cable count was 110 to whatever than pair 110 would be white/blue (unlikely but happens)..so without knowing the cable count you can't know the pair color or group. Make sense? That is why they are suppose to tag the DEMARC with your pair.

There used to be an old saying if you had to slide a count --- "3s and 8s are always green". So if you were working with pair 28 (Straight count, third pair, white green in the orange binder) and it was to slide to the eighth pair of a twelve pair cable, it would still be green, just the red green. Make sense?

KLD

Hey, DJWeis:

Are you sure they are giving you the F2 pair and not the F1 count? Around here, they hardly keep track of the F2 counts since the cross boxes are on every street corner. Could that be the problem? They are leading you to expect something that they aren't providing? I can't imagine something like that with a LEC around here.

When the tech has a bad F2 pair he always calls in for a new assignment..NOT, he just grabs a spare and goes with it. Not saying that's the right way, but that's how they do it. So unless you talk to the tech that did the cross connect, the provisioner or test board isn't going to know.

That's right, Bill. That's also how we create our own OPX circuits or P-P T1's in office parks, especially when F1 and F2 terminate inside of a building. Nobody's going to touch or question a pair that has something working on it, especially when it has red caps. OH, did I say that too loud??

But I didn't hear anything on it...snip