atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Cabling Error

I'm 100% with Twisted Pair on this one. When the owner said "NO NO NO" I would have said "bye bye" and walked away. You don't do something like this just because the client tells you to. The client doesn't have the knowledge and experience to make that judgement call, but you do. If they insist on something so obviously wrong like this, tell them to find someone else. At the end of the day it's going to be tied to your reputation, not the client's.

I would have had them sign a waiver.

Well guys every single one of you is exactly right. I personally was the guy that told the GC this is not the way to do things and he said he didn't care. Just as long as when the end user (college student) gets dial tone or a connection is all he is after. He was warned and my reputation will remain intact.

What you do not know is this. The project we took on made each cable 2 inches shorter and that the GC was also informed that when there isn't a deadline looming things can be done the right way. I pulled the man out of a jam. Failing to meet a construction deadline of that magnitude is extremely expensive.

My bud CCSGINC knows the right way to do things, but turning your back and walking away from someone is not the right way to do anything.

John

Why endorse something which is wrong ?
This gives the Industry a black mark.
If its right its right, if its wrong its wrong, this is cut and dry.
No excuses.

I could not be a part of this situation, or referred it to a buddy.

I'm a old far.. i sleep good at night, and i will not not comprise for breaking the law of right versus wrong.

There is also another thing that I have known for a long time and I don't think a lot of so called experts even know. Now before I tell you this I'm gonna beat the drum again about how it is strongly recommended to home run a cable from point A to B using all the BICSI recomendations, however the truth is you can splice a cable and it will still work. It's not good, not recommended and if another cable can be run to replace one that is the solution. Period. Following that procedure will result in quality installs and happy customers. But the truth remains that a splice will not kill a cable.

I took the time to hook my tester up to 100ft of Cat5e and ran a test. Then I spliced it as sloppy as I could using beanies. Both tests past easily even the wire map. I did have a few beers during the procedure. The NEXT (near end cross talk) was on average .86 poorer on the spliced cable. FYI the limit is 31.4dB.

I'm gonna finish by saying again if there was any other way that would fit the scenario that is the way we would have done it. And this damn sure wasn't the easy way. 123 cables = 492 pairs = 984 connectors and damn near 2000 twists.

Trust me, this was not the easy way out!!!!!!!

Cables have been spliced for over a century and if done properly, or at least close to properly, they will perform just fine. It's the cable manufacturers who don't want this done because replacing a cable run that's too short, well you know the rest. There is always a proper way to splice a cable.

In your case, I don't think I would have used Scotchloks-that's a huge waste of time.

We did the same thing with some AT&T(Lucent, Avaya, whatever) modules connected on each end of a 200 foot piece of CAT5e. We did this because we could not visibly tell the difference between their CAT3 and CAT5 modules. We used the CAT3's just for grins. The cable tested 100% compliant as CAT5e.

I think that the standards are a bit too high. Occasional glitches in design should be managable.

Hold on now. I didn't mean for this to become a values contest. (Thanks KLD :toast: )

I know good and Dam* well this is not the way it should be done. And trust me, all options were discussed and explained to the customer, in the time we had.

This is an apartment building, the closet in on the 1st floor with all cables running thru the sub-floor, with no possible access. So replacement is totally out of the question. They are 100% ready for occupancy by college students. Move in date was yesterday the 18th. Notification of this project was given to us on the Wednesday the 16th.

The owner, client, customer, or whatever you may call them, is who you are there to please. And I don't feel that "By responding to their last minute emergency, and following their directions and meeting their expectations and/or specifications by deadline” puts any bad mark on our industry, makes any statement about the quality of work anybody performs, or determines the common wealth of Right and Wrong.

Its just good business, if you ask me. The client gets exactly what they asked for, on time and with no additional expenses.

Who do you think they are going to call, when it comes down to putting on the jacks, like suggested above, and fixing the problem, after the hectic move-in process is over.

The voice cables will be just fine as they are. The data cables can still be pulled back down, re-terminated with jacks, and correctly repaired at a later date.

Thank you all for your comments.

Kirk

With all the controversy as to who would have done this and please the customer and who would have walked away , this seems like a good topic to start a poll on. (I'm not sure how to do it) :rofl:
Maybe are new Admin. Ed will set this up for us?
MrG

Mr. G., that would be a good poll. But I do believe that the split will be the OFs (me, included) on one side and the new guys on the other.

But Kirk explained it in his last post. He did what HAD to be done as the time allowed. Haven't we all just thrown something in to get the customer service and went back later to do it right?

The wire test has been done before so I have no qualms about splicing if necessary. Thanks John for proving / validating what I've said before. Like Ed said, these ckts have worked for years on Cat Nothing getting to the site. And still are.

But, yes, if it had not been the situation he's in, yes, there would have been a BIG meeting ! And, yes, if the owner/ GC / whomever did NOT want it done right --- bye, bye.

My dollar 2.98.

KLD

Yeah, I think I will try posting a poll. This is a great subject. Let's see what happens.