atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information A New Breed of Phonemen....

General purpose rant:

ELECTRICIANS AND PHONES DO NOT MIX!

I don't know how many jobs have taken twice as long to complete because the customer had the electricians do the phone wiring that had to be completely replaced. Wire nuts, anyone? How about the standard twist & tape?

ELECTRICIANS AND PHONES DO NOT MIX!
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We should make that a bumper sticker

It's not like pulling cable is rocket science. Besides, low voltage stuff is hardley regulated. The money is realy in moves/adds/changes MAC and maint agreements. Just my 2 cents.

Just had a company also try to save money, had the electrician extend the demarc, after seven hours, yes you read correctly, seven hours later we were called in to correct the problem. Took ten minutes.

I love electricians!! When I am done the customer has paid twice as much as if they hired me the first time. When I am done cleaning up the mess, and it usually is a mess, the real professional shines.

Coral Tech wrote:

It's not like pulling cable is rocket science. Besides, low voltage stuff is hardley regulated. The money is realy in moves/adds/changes MAC and maint agreements. Just my 2 cents.
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You may have a point in the current state of things (though I tend to make a lot more on cabling. This is probalby do to my inability to bill the customer for every little thing they should be billed for. I tend to just say "oh forget it, just recommend me to the next person who asks you about phones" )

BUT and I think this is a BIG BUT! As telephone systems start to migrate more and more towards CTI and VOIP, cable performance IS becoming A MAJOR issue!

While we've been talking about the extreme screw ups by electricians, EVEN their standard "good" installs are a far cry from exceptable when it comes to certifying even a standard cat5 network. Now for most people who use a standard DSL connections
with a Linksys router and a standard NIC card this is fine. They are mostly opperating on a 10baseT which could really run on even cat3. But more and more providers are going to VOIP services -
Vonage and others. Verizon is rolling out fiber and offering single voice, internet and video etc. - and more and more systems are integrating unified messaging and other PC/network based features where speed is CRITICAL. In these types of applications the loss of 20, 30, or 40% performance due PURELY to fualty cable installation is going to cost you a SH8 load of service and trouble shooting calls that you will have a hard time billing to your customer unless you address the wiring prior to installation.

As more of my MFGs are rolling out VOIP systems which DEMAND high speed performace, never mind the powered network structure, I am investing in a cable and network tester to certify existing cable/network speeds besides it might be nice subincome) and telling customers that if their cat5e network rates are at 40 -50mb, which is typical from an electrician install, instead of the 100 it should be, perforamce issues will NOT be covered under warranty.

just my 2c.

Corwyn

You know not ALL Electricians make crap 'Phonemen'. I am a qualified Electrician and I'm also a qualified Data/Phone/Fibre Installer, with All relevant licences. Now I work as Communications Analyst managing/Programming 4 PABX's and associated comms/data infrastructure.

One company I used to work for, out of the 15 Electricians 10 of us were also Phone/Data certified. Yes I have seen the jobs in the past were everybody thinks they can do phone work. It's the DIY group that annoys me more especially when they start terminating their own cables and connecting anything up to the PSTN. Yeah everybody is trying to save a buck but it's killing the business. And it's usually the same companies who don't mind charging top dollar for their work/service who try and stiff the 'Phonemen'.

I used to also love going to jobs done by so-called 'Phonemen' who were licensed,who had know idea about cabling standards and didn't follow any of them.

[This message has been edited by dtu (edited September 29, 2004).]

Corwyn, I still contend even running cat5e and cat6 one only has to know VERY little to be very successful at doing it and doing it properly. I am certified to do it but generally sub it out as my time is devoted more to network/communications design and programming. No one is going to pay $150.00/hr for me to pull cable and terminate it. Thats not to say I haven't seen phone techs that have been doing this for endless years that still haven't figured out how to properly terminate on a 66 block and lock the damn things down..it boggles the mind. Seriously though, most people could sit through a graybar cert class and be ready to go. I mean, really it's not rocket science. Just my 2 cents.

My 2 cnets worth ---- back in '94 I worked for the company owned by the NECA president. Why? He told everyone in the NECA magazine that V/D was the future and he didn't have one. I also started a V/D group for another IBEW electrical company.
Now I am semi-retired/disabled vet and run my part time (over 20 years)telephone installation and repair company full time. Because in this small town I know which electricians haave had their people certified on V/D/FO. Which ones that have spent the money for the test gear and furnish test results. They are MY subs. When I go out to install I only have to do the equipment hard ware and set out the sets. I have the VM preprogrammed by a computer/cell phone guy and carry a modem for uploads/changes. As most of my systems are small on-site tele changes are easy. I work with several (the major players) computer guys in prepping for them. A lot of customers are looking for a good computer guy. He subs /or works in conjuction with me.

In a small town like this, customer service, reputation, and knowing more than just telephony means repeat customers.

Yes, I can make more money than pulling wires. My time is more important to me than just money --- my wife, my kids, grandkids, and my good name as the guy you go to to get it done. After forty years I'd better have learned someething.

My long einded two cents.

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What exactly is happening to "our business"? Quite honestly a drunk monkey can pull a phone cable and put a jack on. Lets be honest here it isn't that hard. There are plently of customers out there that can't.