atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring I need some help on the basics

Hal, a lot of times with the bigger Inter-Tel AXXESS installs we put the cabinets in a rack and run 25 pair cables to the blocks on the wall. Some customers do want patch panels so they can change things around themselves. Not saying I agree with that though.

I'll look to see if I have any basic Voice manuals for you. We may have something that you could use in school.

Listen to what these guys are saying. Look at that picture - Nice, neat and half the price (maybe less) of a rack job with panels. Voice patch panels are for yahoos who can't use a punch tool. They're expensive and create an absolutely disgusting looking job. They're also extremely limiting. Suppose you want to use some of the other pairs in a particular cable for another application - what do you do then? Hang a splitter off the panel? Please!

Re' the posted picture - My personal preference is to run the Xconnecxts over the top instead of the bottom and put the CO lines on the left - but like I said that's a personal preference. I also sometimes stand the backboard off the wall with kindorf (strut) and run the cables behind the board. That's also a personal preference and one that a lot of people here don't agree with (I think it only works if you predrill all the holes -including futures and drag them). We all have slightly different views as to what makes a perfect job - but patch panels for voice are not one of them.

Keep asking questions. That's the best way to learn.

Sam

Some customers do want patch panels so they can change things around themselves.

I'll send them to you Jeff, they won't get them
from me.

My personal preference is to run the Xconnecxts over the top instead of the bottom...

I agree, the spools should always be on the top with the wiring on top of them. If you think about it they are there not only to organize the cross connect wiring but also to support it. They can't do that very well with the wires running along the bottom of them. In order to keep the cross connects from sagging it looks like the installer "banjo'd" the wiring to keep it tight which is a no-no. There should be some slack at both ends of each jumper so that you can pull on it to see where its going.

-Hal

Ken - I am comfortable with networking and star topology. It's just the basics of getting the voice into the network that I've been trying to grasp. This forum has helped immensely and I appreciate all of the advice. I liked the way you put it into electrical terms. If you don't mind, I would like to "borrow" your analogy for my class.

In the picture, the demarc is partially cut off. I would expect to see some type of cross connect from that block over to the other blocks on the left or at least up to the phone system. Other than that, everything else in the picture is very clear to me.

Can somebody please explain pri to me?

Hal - The only reason I have been using the patch panels and racks is because it was specified that way. However, I cannot recall one of my instructors (or an engineer for that matter) ever suggesting anything other then patch panels unless the customer was adamant about saving money on the installation. 66 & 110 blocks have commonly been represented as obsolete technology, that's why I have found my way to this forum to get the facts about this stuff. I was brainwashed to believe that everything should be run through patch panels and at data levels to provide "the most flexibility" for the customer. After spending only a few days on this forum, I now know that patch panels actually limit your options with voice application. From now on, I will be better equipped to inform my customers of the proper way do it. As far as being confused and teaching is concerned. I've been asked to teach Structured Cabling which, according to the course materials they are using, is basically a networking class. They want me to teach the studends what I have learned from BICSI including how to terminate the jacks (copper and fiber), the basics of network topolgy, the code as it relates to networking and 568B. I don't have a problem with any of that stuff, so teaching the subject they are looking for is covered. I'm trying to go a step beyond what they expect and teach these students this portion of the project that has never been taught to me. When I get to this topic in class, I will teach them everything I know about the subject (everything that I know is correct). It may not be everything they need to know to complete a project on their own, but at this point, anything I teach them about voice (the proper way) will be better than what they have been taught to date. As I learn more about this topic, I will incorporate it into future classes. Your description of the picture is very helpful. Thanks.

Sam - This program actually has a book to use. I have been putting together a lesson plan built around it, but it is not the greatest textbook. The program director even warned me in advance that the book was not too good. They are open to going with a different book or books in the future so if you have any suggestions, I would appreciate it. I like the idea of standing the board off of the wall. I can see where that would really clean up the look.

A PRI is a Prmary Rate Interface. Essentially it's a T-1 Span Line (A 4 wire Circuit with a bandwidth of 1.544 mbs, also called a DS-1). A standard Voice T-1 has 24 channels of 64kbs each all of which can be DS0s (normal telephone [POTS] lines). A PRI only uses 23 channels for Voice Lines and 1 channel to carry signalling information (Caller ID etc.) Google it, you'll get a much fuller, better explanation.

T-1s are also very often used to provide WAN access to routers.

I'll get you book names in a day or two and I'll see if I can scan some pamphlets for you.

I always found that standing the backboard off the wall was a real help if you had a large job where the bundle of wires coming down the wall to sweep up into the bottom of the blocks was very large. I found using standoffs made the job faster and neater. On smaller jobs though I wouldn't bother. There's no problem keeping 20 cables nice & neat - but 200+! The subject is a source of some serious disagreement on the board, and I will say, I believe I'm in the minority. (I still think I'm right though).

Sam

Well, I looked at books and Manuals and found nothing current.

A book in my library that I often used as a reference is:

"Voice/Data Telecommunications Systems: An Introduction to Technology" by Michael L. Gurrie and Patrick J. O'Connor

It is however from 1986. Amazon says they've got 22 for sale from $2.05 to $178.20 each.

You might want one for yourself as a reference, but it wouldn't do for a classroom book for students.

The question is: What do you want to teach them about voice? How to run cable and terminate it? How to design and layout a job? How to Install and program a PBX? A CO? How to do Outside Plant work? Carrier?

There is a multitude of work that comes under the heading of Telephone, the same way there is a multitude of work that comes under the heading of Electrical.

Are we doing Residential, with 120V receptacles, ceiling fans, the occasional 3 way switch and a 220V Air Conditioner Line? Are we bringing in a 200 Amp 120/208 service and wiring the oil burner?

Are we doing small commercial work - storefronts, fluorescents, freezers, 7-11s etc.

Bigger Commercial work - Office cubicles, 277 lighting & 480 motors, Big services? Decks? Rigid conduit, 4" EMT?

Industrial - Factories? Powerhouses?

Do you see where I'm going?

Frankly if you're going to be teaching this to an IBEW class, ask the Education Director what sort of Telephone work he's looking to capture and go from there. Once he or she decides, come back and I'll be happy to try to point you in the right direction.

Sam

I always found that standing the backboard off the wall was a real help if you had a large job where the bundle of wires coming down the wall to sweep up into the bottom of the blocks was very large.

I have no problem with that and I've sometimes done that myself. Drop them down behind the board then out the bottom and up into the blocks. I'm just against holes in the backboard behind the blocks with the wires coming through them that you can't see.

-Hal

Hal -

I've done it both ways. Drilling holes in the backboard works well if you've got too many cables to fit under the blocks going in one direction and otherwise would have to bring them in from both top & bottom.

Sam

I can see your point. Really that's the only way to do it in that case.

-Hal

one of our sale branches is having issues with incoming calls: one call can get picked up by two terminals and two people often get to talk to one caller. AT&T says their end is clear and the one we sent out to check within the circuit says the last guy who touched the cables kind of switched out some lines. But that last tech was just for the store's burglar and fire alarm lines.

I'm a complete dummy here, any advise will be greatly appreciated.

and by the way, a warm Hello to everyone!
I'm a newbie here and am really excited to browse through the forums.