atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Inter-Tel Telephones & Systems Axxess web interface...

Let me ask you this ....... what difference does it make if the customer is paying an Intertel dealer to work on the phone system instead of you?

You will both be charging him to do that work ... except the dealer will have been trained so he will do things in a fraction of the time it will take you so it may even cost less ..... on top of that the dealer will have a full inventory of parts.

As much as you have trouble with the whole exclusivity thing the reality is that it is very good for the customer to have a vendor that knows the system inside and out, works on it regularly, stocks parts and has access to the manufacturer if they need to escalate trouble.

Just picture this whole process if the customer had hired an Intertel dealer ..... it would have been an entirely different outcome.

Intertel is no different than most other vendors... they want to know that their dealers will do a good job so end users will think highly of their system .... which is exactly what most intertel owners who are properly supported think.

You also made a comment about getting rid of the system ....... so you go out and spend $2,500 +- on a new system ..... that has less capability than their current system. That would pay for a whole lot of service calls.

You keep mentioning that you want to learn .... perhaps the most important thing to learn here is that you are not doing the customer any favors here...

Where did you come up with $2500 for a new system? This is a SMALL office, 5 desks, 4 lines (soon to be 3 I think) and they don't USE, nor are they interested in all of these features. That aren't accessible to them anyway because there are no local dealers they are willing to deal with. We would have to call a dealer from over an hour away, so we would add travel time to their bill on top of their standard minimum fees.
There are a LOT of options out there that would EASILY support the needs of this (and many other businesses in this area) for a fraction of your mentioned cost. Businesses such as these don't even use 10% of the capabilities of most of these phone systems. But they were told by the "experts" that's what they needed so they invested.

I see it all the time in the IT industry, people being completely oversold for what they need because it is good for the bottom line of the dealer/vendor. I match my clients to what fits their needs, now and into the far enough future without going overboard. By the time most of them could even THINK about utilizing some of the more advanced features that they would need a higher end configuration for, they should be considering new hardware anyway.

I know someone will take all that to mean I just keep reselling to my customers. Actually it's quite the opposite, I rarely make a replacement sale to my customer, and I don't get a lot of service calls from them. That is not why I am in business, I am here to make THEIR business run smoother, and if that means setting them up so they don't need me as much that is what I do. I detest those that make a sale, and then pad that sale for their own bottom line.

There is a place for phone systems such as this one, and a large call for them. The clients I deal with don't need these large/overpriced solutions that they spent a small fortune on. I would bet, that had they been sold a set of AT&T 4-line phones (I know, you are all aghast at the thought) but I would BET that the client would have NEVER known the difference between the AT&T setup (at about $100/phone or $500 total cost) versus the phone system they have now that I am sure cost them in the $10K (or even more) range. Yes, they were a larger outfit a few years ago, but not to justify that. But they contacted a "specialist" who was certified to sell a certain brand, so they weren't shown all the available choices, but relied on this "specialist" to not steer them wrong.

Most business owners don't know the first thing about tech (and I consider telecom as part of the tech) so they rely on those more experienced to guide them and just have to have faith they aren't being led astray.

Not doing any favors for my customers? Because I don't tell them to just keep handing over stockpiles of money? You ASSUME what I am billing out for. Please don't place judgment on what I am or am not offering my clients in the way of favors. Because I refuse to climb into any one vendors pockets and peddle their wares, I am doing my clients a FAR greater service. I could be pocketing money left and right if I would just sign up with some affiliate packages. Probably enough that I could just hire one of these "experts" for them, but I REFUSE to allow the dollar dictate my recommendations to my customers. The landscape changes so rapidly, if you settle into a single vendor (or maybe a handful of them) you begin limiting the options you can offer your clients because of other contractual obligations.

I understand that's how it works in "corporate America" and that I am fighting against the tide. But my reputation with my clients is far more important to me than making a few extra bucks. They know and trust that I have done research on their behalf to offer the best options at that given time to fit their current budget. Don't start preaching to me about how I operate my business or support my clients.

And as far as if they had hired an Inter-Tel dealer it would have been an entirely different outcome... all I can see that would be different is my client would be out an ADDITIONAL $500+ (I am assuming the fees here, but travel time, move the system, reinstall, etc... I'm figuring $500 is a WAY more than safe bet) than they spent with me (and that is compensating out what I billed for this project if it hadn't involved the phones). And they would have ended up with what? Oh! A working phone system, which they have by the way. They just don't have complete access to configure it to best fit their business because Inter-Tel doesn't WANT them to unless they hire a "specialist".

I apologize, but you have infuriated me with your assumptions of what I do and don't offer my clients. I won't tolerate my integrity being brought into question, I came here looking for advice from those that work with this stuff more and more. All I've found is a group of elitists who don't like to share their knowledge. Might not want to make this such a public forum. Maybe put something across the top the pages notifying everyone that if they haven't already drunk from the telecom punch bowl and sworn their allegiance to the brotherhood they should look elsewhere.

I have hundreds of customers who "have drunk from the bowl" and are extremely happy.

I stock the equipment to get them up and running at any point in time. That is a big issue you keep neglecting to address... it is not possible to properly support multiple brands of phone systems due to the need to stock parts.

I have spent a week in Texas at IP training with the maunfacturer and a week in Baltimore for my intial training on the system. I already had a background in telecom then spent a full week with an instructor who had 20 years experience in the industry and 5 years with the manufacturer in tech support troubleshooting problems. To say he was knowledgable is an understatement and i learned a great deal that week and have a great resource to contact if needed.

I am a fair, honest reputable businessman with great references and charge a fair price.

Who would you rather have move your phone system?

So, if/when they need to add a 5th line, they will have to scrap what they bought from you.

Unless the client is out in the middle of the desert, there will be at least one dealer nearby...maybe not InterTel, but another brand.

Two different industries, but it's not an industry issue. It's a business issue. We can't speak for the scrupples of other dealers.

I won't even go there...

Then they should have approached several dealer of different systems, THEN make a decision.

And your experience in selling/dealing with REAL telephone systems is what?

That's YOUR opinion. You said it, we didn't.

I've had enough of this crappola for one day....

I wasn't bringing anyone's abilities here into question. I am sure every one of you is well versed in many different capacities and does very well by your clients. The ones who are typically the most shoddy, are the ones that you don't find searching for answers and education online. They aren't interested in expanding their knowledge, just in finding the next victim.

I knew someone would pull the statement about me not getting service calls or repeat sales from my clients. My point there was they don't need to call ANYONE when I am done. Not that they go somewhere else. Always leave it to somebody to find the negative aspect of a statement and run with it.

So on the slim POSSIBILITY that they MIGHT need to add a 5th line we should sell them a package NOW that costs 20 TIMES (or more likely more) what the one that fits all their needs now does? That's some sound business advice. And when they WERE a much larger firm (I'm talking four times the staff they have now, all office based) they still only had 4 lines. Blows that argument all to hell.

I've worked with businesses with dozens of people in their offices, and VERY few of them required more than 4 phone lines into their facility. Most of them never even used THAT many. And now, with the proliferation of cell phone usage, even more of those phone lines sit dormant throughout the work day.

As I stated, there IS a HUGE market for the higher end services most of you provide. However, all across America are small businesses with way more invested into their telecom system than was necessary. Most of it because they were sold by some dealer on the features and how great those features would be. These phone systems have no place in 70% (give or take) of the businesses that have them.

I realize not a one of you will agree with me on that point, otherwise a good portion of your business comes into question. All I am advocating is give the end users a proper breakdown of what is out there. True, it is up to them to handle their due diligence, but most are completely lost when it comes to what is available. It then rests on the shoulders of businesses such as all of yours (and mine) to provide them with the information they need to make a solid choice. And when that choice is limited because whomever they are dealing with can only sell/service Brand X then they aren't properly educated.

I ALWAYS give them a variety of choices, in a variety of price ranges with the pros and cons laid out of each choice. That list is comprised of my evaluations of what they feel their needs are, versus what I can see those needs expanding to.

This debate can go on forever. You will most likely not be influenced to see it my way, and I most likely wont be influenced either. That doesn't make either of our points wrong. I think we are talking from two different lines of business thinking.

Here's a question for you. How many of you have sent a business elsewhere who was looking to make a significant investment in telecom because you KNEW that a different platform was better suited to their needs? Or did you just justify that what you were selling was good, they just needed to change the way they wanted to operate to fit some small concessions? I'd like some HONEST answers to that one. I know I have sent more than a few customers to some of my "competitors" because I felt they could supply a better service for what that client needed.

If you've had enough of the crappola, then quit dishing it out and expecting me to just curl up in a corner and concede you are right. And it ISN'T just my opinion, I get great feedback from my clients, happy that they finally are working with someone who doesn't feel like a snake oil salesmen to them. Too many in both the IT and telecom industry are exactly that and give the rest of us a bad name and an uphill climb to convince them we aren't ALL like that.

They don't have to call anyone when your done?
Do you mean they CAN'T call anyone when your done.

You are a work of art. You know nothing about telecommunications and you're making yourself look like a complete dumb ass with some of these statements. Really its time to call it a day and go remove a virus.

"I've worked with businesses with dozens of people in their offices, and VERY few of them required more than 4 phone lines into their facility. Most of them never even used THAT many. And now, with the proliferation of cell phone usage, even more of those phone lines sit dormant throughout the work day."

I almost peed in my pants after reading that from laughing so hard.

"As I stated, there IS a HUGE market for the higher end services most of you provide. However, all across America are small businesses with way more invested into their telecom system than was necessary. Most of it because they were sold by some dealer on the features and how great those features would be. These phone systems have no place in 70% (give or take) of the businesses that have them."

Darn it, I did pee my pants! Where did you get this figure from? :rofl:

"So on the slim POSSIBILITY that they MIGHT need to add a 5th line we should sell them a package NOW that costs 20 TIMES (or more likely more) what the one that fits all their needs now does? That's some sound business advice. And when they WERE a much larger firm (I'm talking four times the staff they have now, all office based) they still only had 4 lines. Blows that argument all to hell."

No it doesn't. It just again shows how little you know about telecommunications and the steps involved in sizing a system for a client.

Tito
Good reply
Opps I think I need to change my pants toooooo
A true trunk slammer

We have over 100 employees here, and the phones ring off the hook all day every day.
Clearly our PRI must be underused, and we really only need 4 phone lines. Someone HAD to have sold us a bill of goods!
You think WE give the industry a bad name????

OK, all your true colors are now displayed... my work here is done.

As I said before... All y'all have a good ole time up in them thar parts!

(you probably actually peed from worry that your going to be found out for overselling most of your clientele)

And I pulled that number out of thin air since not a ONE of you is man enough to admit to that fact. Oversold our customer?!?! Well heck no! We "sized that system for them" they just don't know they need it all so we informed them!

Off to find another telecom forum that is actually filled with people with OPEN minds I suppose.