atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Inter-Tel Telephones & Systems Moved system - Major Alarm

This past week I moved a clients office to a new location. On Friday afternoon I went into their network closet and shut down the phone system and their network hardware and removed it all (taking careful notes of the wiring). Sunday I went to the new office (phone system was in my van in the meantime) and started installing everything. When we power on the phone system it cycles through, I plugged in a monitor and see one spot where it shows an Invalid Board ID (right after the AXXESS Entry Point Driver is booted - think it is version 6.2 maybe 8.2)

Anyway, the boot continues, and then hangs on a message that it is disabling the lamp on x207 (it disables on several other extensions before this one).

I'm hoping someone can direct me to some things to try to get this phone system functional again. They are considering just pulling it all out and going with a basic 4-line phone setup, and they are a small office so that would probably be fine, but I hate to have a job I worked on non-functional. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I did attempt to log into the system through a browser (using the IP address I see assigned to the phone system). And it comes up with a username/password prompt, but I have no idea what those may be. Most likely defaults, but if anyone can send me a DM or email with options to try I'd appreciate that as well. Because it replies with this I am assuming the system is mostly online, just something that became scrambled (or a card faulted during the move?) Possibly batteries were not sufficient to maintain some settings?

Thanks in advance, hopefully someone has some suggestions to lead me in a direction towards a solution.

Greg

Sounds like the CPU battery was dead, so the phone system database is history. The voice mail database resides on the hard drive, so that’s most likely intact.

If there is a copy of the database kicking around, a dealer might be able to restore it (and replace the battery). Otherwise, it’s time to start from scratch.

Unfortunately, the customer’s gamble on not paying a professional to do the work came back to bite them.

That comment really was not called for you are ASSUMING just because the OP is not familiar with the InterTel they are not a pro. The InterTel is one of the few systems that will not function in the default mode if I was to say anyone was not professional in their job I would say it was the InterTel engineer. Tekamba you will need to know the right software version to get this back running.

Actually, it was spot on. The customer took the gamble of having someone do the work that is totally unfamiliar with the product. In this case, they lost.

Greg sounds like the battery has gone kaput. This means the database is gone and unless you or someone there has a backup and is familiar with the phone system then your out of luck.

DND how do we know that this is the customer's gamble? Maybe they were told that moving the phone system is an easy thing and were led to believe that the people who moved it were skilled in telephone system programming and installation. Either way theres a lesson to be learned here for sure :nono:

Bring in a tech thats knows Inter-Tel and get the customer back in service.

I had assumed this would be a more professional forum that didn't resort to name calling and insults. No, I am NOT a "skilled" technician, but in this area they are fairly scarce and I've moved SEVERAL phone systems without any issues. While I don't disagree with the above comments, they aren't very helpful in the current situation. Yes it is a lesson learned, yes it is at my clients expense, yes I will take better care in the future to prevent these situations, and yes I will inform my client of the cause in this case. None of that fixes THIS problem now however. I'm a little amazed that the default from a bad battery is to have a completely non-operational phone system. If it just lost the configuration and had to be redone that isn't a big deal. Seems more to me a poor design by Inter-Tel.

Now, in a productive stream. Is there any way to determine the database version? Does it HAVE to come from an Inter-Tel tech? Is there a "start from scratch" procedure available online?

For the record, if the battery was dead, and their previous office had lost power long enough for the battery backup to not maintain the phone system in a powered on state, then this same situation would have occurred? Sounds to me like this may have been a good way to find this out as having it just happen out of the blue would have been very troublesome, while in this situation we were aware there might be some issues.

Just my thoughts on it all. I'm sure every tech out there at one time or another wasn't "skilled" in every phone system and had to learn via the school of hard knocks.

Greg

Just spoke with a local tech, he is thinking it isn't the database at all, but rather something corrupted in the operating system. I can get it to boot so I can try to log into it from another computer on the network's web browser by using the IP assigned to the phone system. Trouble is I don't know the username/password combo. I'll be heading over there in a bit to see if I can reset it since it is a linux based system, and then gain access. If anyone has some suggestions for software to manage the phone system, or possible passwords I would be greatly appreciative.
Greg

Yes, with a dead battery the programming will be lost on the CPU card. This would be indicated by an error light on the card itself.
However most technicians will do a backup of the database when performing service. This could be to a floppy disk, USB, etc.
Inter-Tel has proprietary software for Database Programming that is different for each version. Without that software you can not program the system.

The web interface is used for basic diagnostic purposes only so its not going to help you at all. This sounds like a lost or corrupted database and in either case you're going to need an experienced Intertel tech to come troubleshoot and fix the problem. I can't give you passwords or Intertel's software but I can almost assure you that your best course of action here is to seek some help and get the client back up and running ASAP.

Hi Greg,

Welcome to the forum.

Please let us know what lights are on the CPC and EVMC (Embedded Voice Mail Card) cards.

Also, please let us know what cables are plugged in from the EVMC to the CPC card and to what ports.

One mistake was leaving the system sit for 2 days. I pull 'em down & get power to the KSU asap, even if it maybe temp.

Some good advice I received from this forum is to use a UPS when moving a system. Have it fully charged and plug the system into it ASAP and move the UPS along with the KSU to keep it powered.

Good idea Merritt!

Great advice Merritt, and something I should have considered. I did consider plugging it in, but as I stated, every system I've ever worked with if it lost power and battery was dead just mean you had to reconfigure, not that it bricked the hardware.

I'm heading over to their office in a little bit and will report on the light status and wiring Stix1. Thank you.

Seems all the naysaying was for naught. Just returned from client's offices with a fully functional phone system left in my wake. Apparently one of the boards was not fully seated properly or something (though I already reset them once since installing). I took them all back out, and VERY carefully reseated each one, upon powering the system back up all phone lines and extensions are fully functional.

Now for the million dollar question... how do I find/reset the password so I can get into the system and run backups for potential future issues? (I'll probably start a new thread on that question but figured I would throw it out since I am typing already).

Greg

You need to know the version of the CPU and then have InterTel proprietary software to match the version.

While several people have told you already that the password isn't going to get you anything... I'll put it in computer guy terms (since I am a computer guy).

The web interface is useless and no effort should be wasted here, there is zero information here nor any config at all.
Neither will any serial port yield you an interface that is anything but a low-level debug monitor or set the basic bootstrap settings (ie. IP address to talk on the Network).

The *only* way to program/backup/do anything with an inter-tel system is with the proprietary inter-tel software running on a PC, and connecting over serial or an IP connection (or dialin modem).

This software is extremely version dependent (ie. you need the software for that exact version of code you are running). It is only available to Inter-Tel/Mitel dealers/techs (or very unofficial channels).

This software is the only way to backup or change a configuration.

This situation is pretty typical in the telephone equipment realm. Ie. Panasonic KSUs need their proprietary software (although most Panasonic systems being pretty fixed in config would default to a system that is close to what most companies using it would have setup anyway). Avaya is very proprietary software as well depending on hardware and config.

:thumb:

:nono:

So the telephone repair community is a "good old boys" network? Is that what I am understanding? And the customer did NOT lose, there was a delay in getting their system functional, and they were compensated for this delay. There are TWO known companies in this area that service phone systems, and neither of them comes with much positive feedback.

The fact that Inter-Tel has proprietary software is nothing new, you see it all the time. The fact they won't allow anyone to have it unless they are a certified tech? That's preposterous. I bet if they marketed that when selling the phone system in the first place sales would plummet.

And what makes someone "unqualified"? Because I didn't spend thousands of dollars with each vendor learning their particular hardware and paying them a dividend? That's the "good old boy" philosophy at work there. Any person competent enough to understand how the wiring works (which eliminates a good 3/4 of the tech's out there mind you) is capable of moving/working on phone systems. They all operate the same, save for each vendor's own method of attempting to make their systems have some sort of DRM to prevent "outsiders" from working on them.
Lessons learned, and more work coming my way I'm sure (of which I clearly inform the client that while I am not "certified) for a particular phone system, I am competent and express to them that moving ANY technical hardware comes with risks. Shutting off any electronic equipment that has been running for a long time can expose a weakness in the hardware that causes problems to arise when attempting to power it back on. So it isn't always the technicians fault that something doesn't power back up properly.
Greg

Most people who work on Inter-Tel (not all) work for a company that is a dealer. They receive factory training and certifications. This allows them access to software and technical support from the manufacturer.
It's not a 'good old boys' network, it is how the manufacturer decides to make their dealer agreement.

But they don't SHARE that only certified techs can do anything of substance to the hardware THAT WAS BOUGHT BY THE CUSTOMER. The ability to back up your own user information is a basic task that every customer should have, they shouldn't need to call a specialized tech for it. That is my point.

My comments were not pointing towards a good old boys network by any means.... it was in response to a comment about a customer who gambled and lost.

In my opinion what makes someone qualified is installer level programming knowledge, backup parts or a loaner system on the shelf to get them up and running no matter what, and tech support from the manufacturer in the event you cant solve the problem on your own.

I have been in the phone business since 1997 ... i know Avaya and ESI systems inside and out and i stock parts to keep those systems up and running at all times.

I wouldn't be doing a customer justice charging them to move an Intertel system. The same holds true of a Nortel, Comdial, Toshiba and most other systems. Phone systems are not like computers where a vendor can work on just about any brand because the operating systems are the same. The process to add a line, change ringing or hunt groups, program buttons etc is different with all of the different brands and it's tough to know them all.

I don't feel right taking on that type or work ..... do i bill them when it takes me half an hour to find out in the manual how to do something?? If it doesn't boot up do i know how to figure out why not and do i have the part in stock to replace it? If not do i have a loaner system for them?

If they can hire someone else who knows their system and works on it regularly and can provide backup parts in an emergency and i can't they deserve to know that option exists.

This is exactly what happened to my customer... and the sad part is the computer guy charges just as much per hour, took longer to do the wiring work so it cost more and then had his phone system down!

Your comments make no sense at all. Your coming from a computer background into a COMPLETELY different industry and criticizing the business models that have no understanding over. This line

"Any person competent enough to understand how the wiring works (which eliminates a good 3/4 of the tech's out there mind you) is capable of moving/working on phone systems."

makes you sound like a complete idiot. :nono:

Back in the NEC Elektra days, we moved a customer from point A to B. I had worked on several systems, NEC among them, but I did not make a market in that particular system. I only agreed to move it because they were moving into the building where I had control over the equpment room...as in my building and the customer had no other vendor.

Geeze, they use switching power supplies in Elektra's :-) Of course, when we got it to point B it didn't come up. Lucky for us, the customer split the hardware costs and I "think" we broke even on the job.

I have another customer with an Inter-Tel. I'll look at it, because I can get help and it's not in service, nor has it been for a few years (it's in a motel that was purchased from bankruptcy). Will I support it? Not if I can help it, but it's a wedge into a real system.

Of course, I keep saying that everytime I have to look at another Mitel G217 LOL.

The point is Inter-Tel is a closely guarded system and, even if you are the smartest tech in the world, if you don't have support you're a fool to even touch it. Argue all you want about "the customer owns the system and should have all the tools to program it". Perhaps, but that's the way it is. I know about 10-15 systems well. I don't do Tadiran, Intertel, IPO's, Definity's, Option 11's, or NEAX.

It keeps me sane.

Carl

Telecom is NOT a completely different industry. Still works on the basic concept of connect these wires to complete a circuit. Wire tracing, drops, and connections are almost identical (though in the computer field it takes MANY more than 2 wires to make a valid connection).

I don't appreciate your resorting to name calling, my point is that 90% of the telecom industry is in knowing how to route the connections. As far as the programming of the phone systems, that is no different than the multitude of computer applications customers use to solve different problems. If I have a client who is using Peachtree for accounting, and I am not that familiar with it, but I know ALL the other programs and network requirements they have, should I then send them to another service provider? No, I should LEARN what that application does, find the answers they need, and get them back functional again.

Granted this isn't all "billable" time, but if you aren't in the constant process of learning new skills, then technicians such as myself are going to blow right past you while you continue doing what you always did.

Sometimes you gotta know your boundaries. Sure I could figure out how to write code or do database work if a customer asked, but it's not what I do. I'd be wasting their time and mine. I know others who specialize in area I do not. You can't do everything...

Greg, while your attitude is greatly appreciated, please do us a favor and stop it. You have no idea how different each manufacturer's systems are; how differently each proprietary operating system functions and the contractual limitations that dealers must maintain with manufacturers. We can't give away the farm to anyone who thinks that they can simply find their solution on the Internet.

Anyone can find out how to wire a phone jack on-line. I'm sure that it is also a piece of cake to place a patch cord. Come on, you know that life isn't that simple. If it was, everyone would be doing it.

As legitimate and signed dealers to product lines, we have a legal commitment to NOT share proprietary information with anyone who comes along with a question. Real telephone systems are not "open source". Customers pay for the protection of knowing that the manufacturer will keep every 'Tom, Dick and Harry' from touching their systems.

Greg, I'm willing to bet that you are a very smart guy and that you probably could crack the nut that spawned this discussion. I'm not being sarcastic. I think that you can. Proprietary software and programming tools aren't so tough for a pro. As I stroke you with such compliments, you need to understand that not everyone is quite as talented as you are. In a public forum, open to the world for their viewing pleasure, all that your feedback is doing is to dilute the level of quality support that can truly be found on the Internet.

This site ranks at the top end of Google and other search engine sites. This very conversation is what we strive to avoid. We never, ever encourage people to venture into areas outside of the user's guide. We make that perfectly clear in this site's terms of service.

Isn't it funny how nobody ever reads those (TOS) in their quest for instant gratification, as in getting answers or software downloads for free? Come on, admit it. We all scroll to the bottom of the terms and click 'OK' without even reading them.

Click, click, click and it is mine, right?

This isn't the place for that. We don't give away the farm for the reasons stated herein, not to mention the obvious harm that could be caused with errant information/translation.

You really need to look at the big picture, Greg.

Very valid and well thought points Ed. Thank you for the clarity (and not resorting to name calling, which I admit I started getting dragged into).

My only real complaint was that I thought this was a forum for, I have a problem described as such, anybody have any suggestions. THAT is what I thought forums such as this were setup and meant to provide. Not tell me how to completely install and run the system, if I needed that much hand holding then I should definitely NOT be sticking my hands into these areas.

However, I KNEW it was something that was casually overlooked. The corrupt db thought didn't completely calculate with me based on the other results I was seeing. But most of the responses amounted to, "battery was dead, you should have known to check that, bad on you, swindled some poor sap". At least that is how I interpreted it.

I came here seeking the knowledge of the collective mass, not the belittlement from the elite few. I know my boundaries, and these are no where near where they are set. Yes I am intelligent, yes I am confident, but I know what I don't know. And in EVERY other forum of a technical nature I've ventured onto, I've been inundated with potential solutions. It was up to me to filter through which made sense as a possible answer (since no one but me truly knows all the factors that present themselves and it is virtually impossible to remember to include them in a post).

THAT is where the true professional shines, gather information, filter out what you realize is not relevant, and then take what's left and associate it with your current situation to try to find an answer.

It was never my intention to bring this (or any other forum) to a level below where it strives to maintain itself. However, if I feel that others are attacking my character, I will stand up for myself and speak my mind. I've never had a problem speaking up for what I feel is right. True, the telecom companies that build this hardware have a right to protect their property, but (and again this is in my VERY humble opinion) not at the expense of the customer.

Having ANY system that has a default status of non-operational is a VERY poor design. That wasn't the case in this instance, but it was pointed out that the Inter-Tel systems, upon a failed onboard battery and subsequent loss of power would then require a business to call in a "certified tech" to resolve the issue. That just seem ludicrous to me. Sure, wipe out the memory, phone system is in a VERY basic state, but NON-OPERATIONAL???? That seems to me to be a HUGE red flag as to a company who is not interested in the end user, but rather in their own bottom line. I mean, seriously, how many businesses can you say you deal with where anyone there ever even looks in the wiring closet, let alone checks for a light to tell them a battery is failed. Maybe they were told when the system was first installed, but personnel move on and things get neglected (especially when they are working at the moment).

Don't get me wrong, every business HAS to keep their own bottom line as their main goal, but any company I want to associate myself with will do that, WITHOUT risk to the end users. Maybe I have my rose colored lenses outlook, but in my business, I will share any knowledge with any client that wants to know. I don't operate via smoke and mirrors (which quite a few companies in my field do). Does this mean I don't get some service calls that would put money in my pocket? Sure. But what I've found is that it builds a better bond with my clients and actually saves me from having to address a lot of service calls that would detract me from other work.
Now, I also know when I should and shouldn't explain something to a particular client because some are their own worst enemies.
I guess the purpose of this diatribe is that while I understand the reasoning behind some of these actions, I also find it rude and insulting that a forum that professes to be a place to help other technicians, treats someone who isn't fully vetted into the psychology of what is the telecom industry, with such disdain. (Again, that is how it came across to me).

I am sure a vast majority of you technicians are more than willing to lend a quick piece of advice from time to time. Just remember, you didn't just wake up one day knowing it all, everyone runs across a situation that is new to them. That is the exact reason for forums such as this.

I appreciate everyone's responses, whether I felt they were well thought out or not, it is appreciated that you felt strongly enough about a topic such as this to voice your opinion. That is how improvement comes, through a collective discussion where all viewpoints are heard and considered.

Here is my question for you ..... did the customer know your limitations??

If they did and chose to hire you anyway then there is no issue ...... if they did not and you chose to represent yourself as qualified to move their system (and deal with any issues) then there is an issue.

Greg, First let's go back to the original post. You were offered suggestions as to what the problem may have been. You were also told MANY times that you were approaching the problem incorrectly when you kept mentioning the web interface. You still insisted that there had to be a way to do something and then went on to say how you could get root access and so on and so on. You chose to ignore the advice that was given to you by certified technicians. Your description sounded to me like a dead battery and my recommendation was to find an Intertel dealer who can troubleshoot and repair the problem. You again chose to ignore the advice but instead bash Intertel and demean telephone technicians by suggesting anyone can do this. You then go on to make several statements that make absolutely no sense at all. Lets cover a few.

"(though in the computer field it takes MANY more than 2 wires to make a valid connection)."

This one is laughable. You are not only in the company of telephone and IT professionals but also structured cabling experts. Most of us are well aware of whats required for voice and data cabling as we do this for a living every single day. FYI before you spout off any more nonsense. Many phone systems use 2 and some even 4 cable pairs to operate. That is MANY more than a computer.

"Having ANY system that has a default status of non-operational is a VERY poor design."

This one again is silly. Lets take a random company and look at their operational model. How about Cisco? What happens when a Cisco router loses its startup-config and reboots? Or how about a Sonicwall router? How about an Exchange Server? In its default state what is it good for? So then with your line of reasoning these companies are all concerned with the bottom dollar and not the customer's needs? I can just see you standing in front of the client explaining how their problems are a result of Intertel's shady business models when in fact their problems were a direct result of YOU now knowing anything about the phone system you were working on.

"As far as the programming of the phone systems, that is no different than the multitude of computer applications customers use to solve different problems"

Again so far off base here. That is like saying that programming a Cisco router is the same as learning how to use Peachtree. there is so much underlying information that needs to be known. Just like you need to understand IP addressing, subnetting, routing, CLI, and a ton of other things to configure a Cisco router you also need to understand quite a bit about the telephony field in general before you can competently service and maintain telephone systems.

I need coffee!

OK, let's rehash a few of your attempts to break down my statements.

"Many phone systems use 2 and some even 4 cable pairs to operate. That is MANY more than a computer."

HUH?!?!? Completely lost me there. Your most basic network wiring (10/100) requires 2 cable pairs, if you wanted to go Gigabit then it requires 4 cable pairs. Seems to me to be the same numbers there. I'm pretty good at math too, so I'm fairly confident 2=2 and 4=4. Laughable? Yes, your logic is.

So you are saying that when the CMOS battery in your computer dies, you would be perfectly content for it to show absolutely NO response when you power it on? And the Cisco routers, when you first hook them up and connect into them, do you THEN need to go to Cisco, get certification from them, and ONLY then can you configure them? Nope. Plug it in, bring up their web interface, and configure away.

"Programming a Cisco router is the same as learning how to use Peachtree." First, I would recommend you NEVER consider opening a business managing peoples books as a Cisco router would do a HORRIBLE job of it. And second, it is the same. Anyone who knows enough to understand what the purpose of the Cisco router is and WHY it needs to be configured, can typically get it into an operational state. Now, would it be the best tuned to the task at hand by them? More than likely no, but it WOULD be up and doing the job. And without needing to get certified by Cisco before they can even get a copy of the "configuration" software for that router.

I didn't choose to ignore advice, I realized it was most likely not applicable to this situation and pushed for more answers. I found my answers, and learned quite a bit about phone systems along the way. I apologize that I was not born with the knowledge that you apparently had the moment you entered the telecom field, but some of us attempt to continue learning as we advance forward in life.

To everyone else, I apologize for resorting again to this useless bashing. But if someone is going to call me out (and with such wildly incorrect statement that attempts to show their superior intellect) I WILL respond in kind and set the record straight.

That is our point ...... we have spent countless hours learning our trade ... and lots of money getting these certifications from the manufacturer.

You come on here and say it isn't needed..... while providing a perfect example of why it is needed!

You didn't answer my question about whether or not the customer was made aware of the gamble he was taking.

We all consider a customer getting their phone calls to be of the utmost importance and wouldn't do anything to put that in jeopardy.

Greg, the more you post, the more it becomes clear of your lack of understaning technology. Thats not a knock on you, but you need to know what your doing before you do it. The customer should not suffer because of your lack of knowledge.

First, You failed to see my sarcasm at your "many more than two post" I was simply making light of the fact that you made it sound like computer cabling was so much more complicated than telephone cabling.

Second, I was simply showing that other manufacturers have products that are dumb out of the box and do nothing at all. Its not a telecom industry thing like you made it sound.

Third, this is not a us vs. them thing. If you had posted to a Cisco forum explaining that you tried to configure a router and now the customer's network is down and you don't know what to do we would be having essentially the same discussion. I would be questioning why on earth you touched a crucial piece of equipment without having the technical knowledge to work on it.

I think you're missing the big picture here. How can you be comfortable with the fact that you caused the client's outage and then try to pass it off as Intertel's fault or the telecom industry's fault?

Answer this... Did you tell the customer that the phone system is down because of your lack of technical knowledge? or did you tell them all the silly nonsense you've spouted here.

You may be a very intelligent person and a swell guy. I don't know you personally so I can only judge based on the comments you have provided here and I apologize if I did any bashing. You will never be an expert at everything so learn your limitations and become an expert in the fields you excel at. Just because you think you can learn something does not mean its in the best interest of the client for you to attempt it.

To answer everyone's question... YES the client was fully aware of my limitations. However, given the fact that there aren't many "knowledgeable" phone guys (I should add reputable to that as well) they asked me to move all the wiring closet hardware. This wasn't the first phone system I had moved, and far from the first that I had serviced. It was, however, the first Inter-Tel, so I suppose that is where my lack of experience shined through the most. Not knowing the vagaries of that particular manufacturer to know that they have a fail safe built in so if something goes wrong, it would go way wrong. Lesson learned.

I have also spent countless hours learning my trade as well. Perhaps I should offer a bit of a background, I started in machining and did my apprenticeship in that field. As the economy turned back in the mid 90's I found myself unemployed for almost a year before getting hired on at a small machine shop (less than 10 employees). It was owned by a couple not much older than myself, as well as another gentleman who was also about my age. Their philosophy was, and still is to this day, bring us what others say is impossible and we will figure out a way to get it done.
While working there in a machinist capacity, I had to have a minor surgery that took me off my feet for awhile. By this point they were up to maybe 50 employees. Upon returning to "light duty" work they placed me in the office doing purchasing. It was supposed to be temporary until I could stand out on the shop floor for a full shift. About this time the owner (who had been maintaining their network) decided he needed someone else to step in. I have always had a love, and a certain knack, for computers and all things technology, so I started taking care of it for him. At that point it was about 9 computers, a little over half of them were hooked up in a token ring network, the rest were sneaker net.
When I left that company a few years ago (to strike out on my own and get the HELL out of California! (-: We had built that network up to 60+ computers, 7 servers (Linux and Windows mixture there) and he became my first customer for my new business. There was also a 2nd "sister" company now in place that employs another 30+ employees with a network of 10+ computers and 2 servers which I was responsible (still am) for building and maintaining. I also worked with his "phone guy" (who was the most helpful and always willing to teach someone who was interested some of the trade, just by the way).
Working with phones/phonelines themselves... I consider it a very logical, and straightforward concept. For a single line, there is a single pair, you keep that pair grouped and run properly and you can place a phone wherever it is needed. When you place the hardware of a phone system into the mix things get a bit more complicated, but the concept is still logical. Phone lines enter the hardware, it processes whatever is happening, call coming in, extension putting it on hold or transferring, hung up, whatever, and it re-routes that pair to whichever handset(s) it is programmed to. Please don't tear apart that breakdown, it is VERY basic and I've left a lot of the details out.
The simple fact that I don't know one particular vendors quirks does not mean that I am incapable. In fact I proved otherwise in the fact that this client is now fully operational (along with a handful of others from the past). When the system was not booting as expected, I routed critical lines to the proper desks where we setup phones to accomodate (1/2/4 line phones). The customer was NEVER without phones (except during the actual move of course) and I didn't bill for every single moment I was on premises because I don't operate that way.
My "lack of technical knowledge" was not the issue. If you tell me that you NEVER had a card in a phone not seated properly, I will outright call you a liar. Maybe it wasn't a card not seated, but a connection that you've made a million times before, that wasn't as solid as it should have been, or a (fill in the blank). My point is everyone, at some point, no matter how much "technical knowledge" they have in that field, makes a mistake and has to backtrack to find it. To be honest, I most likely would have found my mistake of not having the card seated fully a day or more sooner if I wasn't sent on a wild goose chase about lost db's and dead batteries. Instead of asking if I had checked the battery fault light to verify that was the issue, I was told that was it (with quite a bit of certainty it seemed) so that was the path I was sent on attempting to find a solution. Not a lot of support around here to try to call on, so I was left to troubleshoot as well as I could.
I have written millions of lines of code, assembled thousands of PC's, and done all kinds of networking configurations. I don't know it all. I know when I need to seek out more help in a particular area. I've sent my programming buddy (as he has done to me as well) many different emails with code attached that one of us just couldn't get to work properly, more often than not the return email consisted of "You dumb@$$, you left out a semi-colon, or didn't set a declaration right", or some other minute detail. It get's difficult to see the forest for the trees sometimes and a new pair of eyes (or a new line of thinking) sometimes rattles you right back on track. I'm sure every one of you has encountered that one!
On a final note, about the countless hours learning your trade. Bravo. I applaud everyone who commits to learning something and does so. I have several friends who did the whole college route, and virtually EVERY one of them if I ask them how much of what they learned in school gets used regularly, they will reply "Almost none". It was all the after-hours, self studying that they use in their day to day lives.
Thank you for your candidness, and directness. I do appreciate that. But I refuse to go to one of my clients and tell them, sorry, you'll have to find someone else in this area that specializes in that. When it is so closely tied to my field already. I'm not going to run a new power drop for someone (though I'm sure I could learn how and do it without an issue) but when their choices are severely limited, my response always has been, and will continue to always be - "I'm not that experienced with exactly how ABC works. But I'll be back in a day or two and I'll have some answers." Sometimes that answer is "After reviewing it in more depth, this is a task we should probably call in someone else for, here is a list of people I've gotten personal recommendations for."
My customers hire me for answers, not for me to inform them that I'm sorry I can't do that, you'll have to find someone else. I am working towards becoming an expert in the fields I excel at, just because I hit a roadblock with one particular vendors hardware doesn't mean I now feel incapable. Rather I now feel more capable, I will definitely be researching the common pitfalls, and things to look for before moving anything. But I will find an answer and I will continue to push myself out of my comfort zone so I continue to learn and expand my knowledge.
Fortunately I have found a local telecom person, who is willing to share some knowledge with others. So I shouldn't have to bother this forum with my questions. I don't really see the purpose of this forum however, if everyone is only supposed to be working on what they are expertly skilled at. But I suppose that's just for me to ponder.

Not to jump in at the end, but how much time do you think you have spent on this project versus how many more projects you could have gotten that you KNOW and would/could do at a very high level of expertise? You probably could have done two more jobs that you KNOW how to do by now, which from a business perspective would have been many times more profitable.

I have to agree with the others. If this was something you were an expert in, then you would have been fine. Since you weren't/aren't, then you should have had replacement parts to get the system back up and running at a moments notice, (even though phone systems tend to be rock solid as you have seen). If you didn't have the means to get replacement or backup parts, then you should have at least had another plan of action for the customers sake rather than posting on the internet looking for help as their system was "dead in the water".

Just my two cents...

Agreed, but how much was learned because of this project? A LOT! And not just about the phone systems, but about the society surrounding them. The cost of education is not often considered, but I think of it as very profitable time.

And for the record, they were never "dead in the water". The customers were always operational and kept informed through every step of the way. They had backup plans in place for the phones during the transition, we just had to utilize them longer than was original intended. And place a few other plans in place along the way. The customer was never at risk of losing business, or operating at a decreased capacity. All the issues took place during the physical office move and desks weren't setup anyway for the phones to be used at. By the time that was all done, I had found my answer and they were back to full capabilities.

Though we did cut it a little too close for comfort! (-:

By the way. If you go to the Inter-tel/Mitel web siie you will find many authorized dealers in your area. Inter-tel is or was located in Scottsdale not far form your area. Search and you shall find.
Nerver put ther customer at risk, even if it means you don't make as much.

It wasn't about what I could bill out, was actually working with the client to keep their costs down. This wasn't an office move they had desired, but one due to the economic climate so costs were a BIG factor. I even discounted some of my work as I just moved them into their last office less than a year ago (although that was in the same building, just a nicer suite so didn't require moving the phone system, just re-routing extensions in use).
I assumed (possibly incorrectly and will definitely call on them in the future) that calling any from outside the area would add 25% or more to the clients end costs (which they agreed they'd like to try to avoid).
To be quite honest, I feel this phone system is WAY overmatched to their needs. When they bought it years ago they were a much larger office, they have now decreased to only needing 4 lines (and they are discussing cutting that down to 3) and 5 extensions. Seems to me this particular phone system is a bit overkill and if things continue to decline they may be smart to try to sell off this system and buy something more basic.

They wouldn't get much for a system that old and would most likely cost them more to do as you will recommend.

Even if it is more than they presently need, as long as it serves their purposes, does want they want, leave it alone.

I wasn't recommending it, was throwing it out to get feedback just like you provided. I had a gut feeling we would be hard pressed to offset costs. But if the system does have a major failure we would have to seriously consider replacement versus repair. Again, it would have to be based on the actual situation, but something to keep in mind.
Greg