|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60 |
Have a customer with a plain voice T1 (not PRI). When they make an outgoing call the receiving end gets an "unknown caller" ID. Verizon says this is the way it works. Is this true? Also, can my customer receive caller ID on this T1?? Thanks
|
|
|
Visit Atcom to get started with your new business VoIP phone system ASAP
Turn up is quick, painless, and can often be done same day.
Let us show you how to do VoIP right, resulting in crystal clear call quality and easy-to-use features that make everyone happy!
Proudly serving Canada from coast to coast.
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143 |
Is the actual service provider in question Verizon, or is there a third party involved?
"...Time moves slowly and it goes so fast..."
(Sandy Denny)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,268
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,268 |
The provider at your customers place sends out the number on outgoing calls. The provider at the called location looks up that number in their database and provides it to the called location. That's how it works.
If the called location provider has "Unknown Caller" as the name for that number---then that's what is going to be displayed. Some providers don't make any changes in their database for years. Also, some providers want extra $$ to provide a name. If that called location has refused to pay that fee---then that's what they're going to get for all of the incoming calls---"Unknown Caller".
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 250
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 250 |
Somewhat educated guess: A plain old T1 contains 24 channels each at 64kbps availible for data or voice. There is no extra bandwidth availible for extra services like caller ID presentation. A PRI has 23 channels for voice or data and 1 signalling channel to handle signalling functions and extra things possible like caller ID for the 23 channels.
PS: I haven't seen too any PBX's using anything but PRI's.
Forty six years and still fascinated with Telecommunications!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,178 Likes: 8
Spam Hunter
|
Spam Hunter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,178 Likes: 8 |
In cases where trunks are T1E&M, loop or ground start, the LEC can assign an ANI to the trunk group in the Central Office switch and forward it along on originating calls. The terminating switch would check the database for the name associated with the ANI and pass it along to the called party.
I Love FEATURE 00
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60 |
Thanks for the input. The service is Verizon, customer's PBX is a Panasonic KX-T1232 rev 4. Looks like it is time for an upgrade to PRI, or maybe SIP trunks
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,056
RIP Moderator-Mitel, Panasonic
|
RIP Moderator-Mitel, Panasonic
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,056 |
Contrary to popular belief, each channel of a T1 has room for the CID. Remember, it's only presented between the 1st and 2nd ring (and again between 2 other rings 7 & 8?). It requires no overhead data space, it's sent as a modem signal @ 1200 (?) baud. You can hear it with a buttset in monitor mode. HOWEVER, most LECs don't want to mess with it! When we run a PRI to an old Mitel D, we convert it to a T1 with an Asterisk machine at the customer site. And then feed it to the Mitel T1 card. No not a trunk card, a T1 card. And yes, the Mitel 15/16 will display CID on the console. CID works just fine if you provision everything correctly. You must, however, disable trunk 24 on the T1, because there are only 23 on the PRI. However, sending the CID out will have to be done by the Asterisk, if the Provider won't attach it. In addition, I have been told that there are 2 different CID transmission schemes and not all LECs are willing to deal with both. True, beats me? Maybe someone else knows for sure!
Last edited by Lightninghorse; 10/03/12 01:56 PM.
When I was young, I was Liberal. As I aged and wised up, I became Conservative. Now that I'm old, I have settled on Curmudgeon.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,716
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,716 |
"Back in the day" There was no CID on T-1 UNLESS you had MCI. They had a standard and you could have ANI which is similar to CID. So, Lightninghorse is correct in that there is plenty of bandwidth for the CID data, however, the way Telcos tariff their products, they will never provision CID or ANI on T-1 when they have it on PRI.
Rcaman
Americom, Inc. Where The Art And Science Of Communications Meet
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,347 Likes: 4
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,347 Likes: 4 |
Have a customer with a plain voice T1 (not PRI). When they make an outgoing call the receiving end gets an "unknown caller" ID. Verizon says this is the way it works. Is this true? Also, can my customer receive caller ID on this T1??
... customer's PBX is a Panasonic KX-T1232 rev 4. Looks like it is time for an upgrade to PRI, or maybe SIP trunks With that Panasonic key system you have POTS trunks so there has to be a channel bank owned by probably Verizon someplace. You could just leave the system as is and upgrade to PRI. But I don't believe the 1232 is CID capable (or is there an add on module for it, been a long time). -Hal
CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143 |
however, the way Telcos tariff their products, they will never provision CID or ANI on T-1 when they have it on PRI.
Rcaman I believe that this is the key issue, and that's why I asked who the provider was.
One can get a voice-provisioned T-1 with all the bells and whistles nowadays, but not from Verizon directly. If you need that type of service, and Verizon is the only service provider (not the LEC!) in your neck of the woods, you'll have to go for a PRI.
Good luck.
"...Time moves slowly and it goes so fast..."
(Sandy Denny)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60 |
The provider is Verizon, but I think its a part of Verizon that was the old MCI. They have not installed any equipment at the customer's site, other than a smart jack. In fact, the facilities are so old here that the building is served by a lead covered underground cable. The Panasonic Rev 4 does not support PRI, only plain vanilla T1. For PRI I would have to upgrade it to at least a Rev6, and PRI cards seem scarce and expensive.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143 |
The provider is Verizon, but I think its a part of Verizon that was the old MCI. Is the circuit coded as xxHCGS123456 or xxHCGL123456?
Here's why I'm asking:
If you have a HCGL, that's a regular Verizon Core T1, and you're out of luck.
Should the circuit be HCGS, that's Verizon Business (formerly MCI) and you *might* get them to provision it the way that you need it to be...
Good luck.
"...Time moves slowly and it goes so fast..."
(Sandy Denny)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,382 Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
|
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,382 Likes: 13 |
Yes, the TD-1232 has optional modules that support CID on a per four-line basis. I agree that there must be a channel bank providing the delivery to the system from MCI (now Verizon Business).
Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,178 Likes: 8
Spam Hunter
|
Spam Hunter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,178 Likes: 8 |
In Verizon New England Telephone territory "xx/HCGS/xxxxxx" as well as "xx/HCGL/xxxxxx" are both used by Verizon Core.
I Love FEATURE 00
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143 |
In Verizon New England Telephone territory "xx/HCGS/xxxxxx" as well as "xx/HCGL/xxxxxx" are both used by Verizon Core.
Just goes to show how different things can be between the two states...
In NY(city), we install and maintain all of these, but once you see HCGS (which is 99.9% of the time) you know that there's another provider - be it Verizon Business, AT&T, Covad or whoever else - involved.
My somewhat educated would be that no one is willing to pay for a "true Verizon" HCGL circuit anymore...haven't installed one of those in a very long time.
"...Time moves slowly and it goes so fast..."
(Sandy Denny)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,347 Likes: 4
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,347 Likes: 4 |
I have a customer who has had a Verizon T1 and channel bank for many years. About a year ago Verizon on their own changed everything out with a new circuit and a new Adtran channel bank.
-Hal
CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,178 Likes: 8
Spam Hunter
|
Spam Hunter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,178 Likes: 8 |
I think that we have the same scenario with circuit IDs. If an order is placed by the end user, Verizon uses HCGL. If an alternate provider placed the order, HCGS is used.
I Love FEATURE 00
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143 |
I have a customer who has had a Verizon T1 and channel bank for many years. About a year ago Verizon on their own changed everything out with a new circuit and a new Adtran channel bank.
-Hal You're not referring to one of those "shark" things, are you?
"...Time moves slowly and it goes so fast..."
(Sandy Denny)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 60 |
The circuit in question starts with 88HNNC. There is no Verizon equipment on the premises other than the smart jack. The Panasonic owned by the customer is a Rev. 4 which can handle T1 but not PRI.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 143 |
The circuit in question starts with 88HNNC. There is no Verizon equipment on the premises other than the smart jack. That's a Verizon Core circuit. A pretty rare bird in my neck of the woods. It's been years since I've touched one of those.
There *should* be some CPE-related service agreement available with that type of a circuit...in regards to what the LEC must provide and so forth and so on...
Good luck.
"...Time moves slowly and it goes so fast..."
(Sandy Denny)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13 |
Call the telco and have them add a pseudo ANI for outbound calls, typically this is the client's BTN, but can be any number they want (as long as it's available), including toll free 8xx's. Also, make sure the ANI is registered in CNAM's database, otherwise it will show up on receiver's CID as unknown, not available, etc. Either way, this can still happen when calling into rural areas served by a small mom&pop ILEC.
On a somewhat related note, there are telcos that can provide DIDs for most any city in the US -- as a specialized call center type product. And the way it works is that for every outbound call, the CID shows up on recipient's phone as a local number. With the idea being they will be more likely to answer the call.
Both standard 24ch voice T1s and 23ch PRIs can both transmit CID, but it's my understanding that PRIs are somewhat more reliable at it.
Not sure I understand your second question: are you asking if your customer can receive CID on inbound calls?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,514 Likes: 2
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,514 Likes: 2 |
Isn't it by law providers have to send name, number or both on outbound calls?
We get old too soon, smart too late
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,382 Likes: 13
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
|
Moderator-Vertical, Vodavi, 1A2, Outside Wire
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,382 Likes: 13 |
"Contrary to popular belief, each channel of a T1 has room for the CID. Remember, it's only presented between the 1st and 2nd ring (and again between 2 other rings 7 & 8?). It requires no overhead data space, it's sent as a modem signal @ 1200 (?) baud. You can hear it with a buttset in monitor mode. Well, yes and no. Yes, each 64K channel of a T1 circuit is designed for 56K of bandwidth for voice communications and 8K for signalling. What happens in the 8K is up to the service provider and the terminal equipment's ability to work with it. No, you can't monitor an individual T1 channel by connecting to the circuilt with a butt set to monitor for caller ID, or FSK data. If the T1 circuit lands on a channel bank or an IAD that converts the T1 into POTS circuits, and those channels (DS0s) are provisioned for such, then yes, a butt set will work on an individual FXS channel during the initial ring cycle through the monitored burst of data being sent. One thing that is important here: Most true T1 circuits are meant for long-distance calling only. These circuits originate in toll offices, not end offices. Toll offices are at a layer above the end offices (end offices provide all of the end-user demands), while toll offices just boot high-volume traffic up a level to reduce bottlenecks. For example (Cities are for figurative purposes only): A customer in Hackensack, NJ mass-calls numbers in Waukeegan, IL for a mass marketing campaign. Using a PRI or POTS services, these calls will originate in the Hackensack end office, bump up to the Newark, NJ toll office, then to the long distance service provider's office, across the LD network that hops through Dallas and Denver, then back down to the local toll office in Chicago that drops it down to the end office in Waukeegan. A T1 circuit cuts out several steps of this otherwise complicated process. Much like bulk mailing, where the customer does a lot of the pre-sorting before the mail leaves their office, T1 customers are in essence doing the same thing. "Back in the day" There was no CID on T-1 UNLESS you had MCI. They had a standard and you could have ANI which is similar to CID." Yes and no again. AT&T always had this service as well, in fact their 4ESS toll switches have had it since they were first brought into production. The key is where the T1 circuit originates. If it originates in an end office, common sense would be to deliver nearly identical capacities with more features as a PRI. Name delivery has been the issue. T1 circuits via toll offices have always been able to deliver number-only data, but not name data which is considered to be end-office information. If the T1 is there for the true need for a T1 (direct connection to the long distance network for bulk savings), then the T1 originates in a toll (typically 4ESS) office. Toll switches don't hand down end-user features since mass calling customers really don't care about individual call information. They receive this data in bulk format from their provider anyway.
Last edited by EV607797; 12/05/12 11:54 PM.
Ed Vaughn, MBSWWYPBX
|
|
|
Forums84
Topics94,395
Posts639,309
Members49,804
|
Most Online5,661 May 23rd, 2018
|
|
0 members (),
303
guests, and
273
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|