atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Outside Plant OSP Construction Undergound coax telephone cable???

I'm building a new house, contracting it myself. I plan to have all outside wiring underground. My local ComEd field supervisor told me that if I had them do the job, they would put in not only the electrical cable, but also the telephone and CATV cable as well. He says that they normally just throw all three cables into the trench all at once. The thing is that to have them do it, it would cost me (according to this guy) somewhere around $2K.

Being the cheapskate that I am, I'm thinking that I could trench it myself for about $100. The electrical cable would cost me about another $100. So that just leaves the phone and CATV lines. The CATV cable I already have taken care of via other means, but not the phone cable...

Earlier this week I called AT&T, and was eventually passed along to their "Midwest Buried Wire Center". Like their name says, they supply underground cable to their customers. So, I requested (and got) some underground cable delivered to my house, which I plan to put into my trench. But the thing I'm curious about is that the phone cable which AT&T dropped off is coax. I was expecting some type of multi-pair cable.

So, finally, here's the question: Is this how phone service is being delivered to the house these days, via coax cable? Or did they just goof up and give me the wrong cable?

they sent free cable

got that number handy

AT&T Midwest Buried Wire Center
1-800-924-9420

I'm not aware of any coax used for dial tone. I have seen telephone cable and CATV coax together in the same piece of wire. Did you cut it and make sure it's all coax? If it is I bet they sent the wrong wire.
Mark

DT, it can look like coax to the lay person but have you actually cut it open or skinned it back?
It should have 6 pairs wrapped in a plastic jacket
and may or may not have a waxy substance like silicone under the outer jacket.
Are there any markings on the jacket?
Brand name, cable part number?
If it is coax, don't use it. There are plenty of places locally to get 6 pair direct burial cable.
MrG

Yes, there is the possibliity that they may be delivering DT through coax. Cox communications is doing this in our city, and have seen it used in both residential and commercial customers. I would make sure there is both (coax/telco wire) between your pole/pedestal and house Dmarc.

I stripped the end of the cable, and it's definitely coax. The cable does have some markings on it, but none of them show a manufacturer name. Here's exactly what it says along the cable:

KV2908111 9900963 BMU (ETL)us 14 AWG "150V" (phone symbol)

Where (phone symbol) is a little picture of a telephone handset in a horizontal position. (I took a picture of it, but I don't know how to add it to this post.) This little phone symbol is the thing that makes me think that this must be the right cable, only I've never heard of coax phone cable before.

RustyNails: Thanks for the info. I think you're right in that I should also have telco wire in the trench. I'm going to call AT&T back on Monday to see if I can also get some 6-pair from them. That way I'd be "future-proofed" to some degree.

have you looked into burying a small conduit so if the cable goes bad or need to add it would be easy to do it cause in a couple years it might go bad just my 2 cents

Yeah, if the trench is open I'd toss in a 2" conduit to facilitate repair work or the need for additional cables.

How deep will ComEd bury their plant? You can follow in "their" trench but, keep at least a foot of dirt between them and your telephone/CATV. This also applies to placing your cables in plastic pipe. Depending on bends and turns you should be able to get by with 3/4" pipe.

But, why bother? Both Telco and CATV will deliver to your house. Let them take on the expense. Just make sure you run your "outside" cables from inside your house to an area that accessable to them - usually near the electric entrance.

Ditto

But, why bother? Both Telco and CATV will deliver to your house. Let them take on the expense. Just make sure you run your "outside" cables from inside your house to an area that accessable to them - usually near the electric entrance.

I speak from experience...we had our cable line cut a number of years ago so the cable company came and ran a new one. they do not bury it very deep...the landscaper cut it while edging some beds...

cable and phone drops around here are usually no more than 6" deep , the old joke is you lay it on the ground and kick a little sand over it .

you need to know the area there in and be care full digging

How about FIOS, many new homes and developments are using fiber. If conduit is run no problem for future upgrade.

It's also why cable companies typically don't charge if the line is cut. How far they are SUPPOSED to bury it and how far they actually do are two different factors and really depends on the contract crew sent out to replace it. Combine the high cost of trenchers and plows and the lowering installation rates for the contractor, I'm not surprised in the least that it's basically laid just under the grass. I've heard crews around here are getting around $40 to run a replacement underground drop from the tap back to the house. Please tell me where you get quality out of that...

(Sorry for the random OT rant...)

Cox is replacing broken/cut drops with a "coax in conduit" product. I have no idea how deep it's buried. Apparently it comes on a reel with the coax already installed in it.

Yeah, I'm seeing that more and more from the MSO's. I've also noticed that locally, Time Warner is installing innerduct (Not the coax in conduit deal) on all drop replacements and then yanking in the coax. So now they can have a regular tech do underground drop replacements if the one in the innerduct goes bad. Cheap way to improve customer repair times.

I was a contractor for Cox in Va. Beach when they were beginning to deploy "cable in conduit". I suspect what was delivered was the cable we installed in the conduit which was called"siamese coax", also referred to as "figure 8 cable". It is 1 RG6 with a 22 ga. 1 pair for voice service.

In the UK, buried cable without conduit is virtually unheard of. In some cases "Alkathene" or similar pipe is used. It's pretty cheap, and very tough, so it will generally prevent an enthusiatic gardener with a spade from doing damage. Often low cost 2" server ducts are used, or if the building contractor is thinking ahead, he will run in 4" pipes. (Not that expensive, and easy to add cables later, provided he had the wit to leave a draw-in rope!)
Even cables graded for outdoor use can easily get cut through if they are under tension and/or laid over sharp stones etc., so it's always worth a bit of added protection.

This seems like an old thread, but it looks to be revived.

Phone service can be supported over coax cable if your phone provider is your cable company (Cox, Comcast, Time Warner, etc.).

My house was new construction when I bought it last year and Qwest was supposed to come out and bury a cable from the box to my NID. They never did it, so I don't have any twisted-pair cable running to my house. Fortunately, I have my phone service through my cable provider (VoIP), so it is a non-issue.

However, I may have to "disclose" the fact that my house doesn't have this wire when it comes time for me to sell. It depends on what the local disclosure laws are here... still not sure.

Then again, I would think that Qwest would come out now and put the cable in if they ever hope to get any service from this household!

~Hans

I have my phone service through my cable provider (VoIP)

Actually I don't believe its VoIP at all but some other method of transporting data back to the headend switch (and I would know if I had the time to read the damn CATV industry mags I get). From there it then goes out to the telco CO via usual T1s, etc. Thats why it works. The cable plant just replaces the copper back to the phone company.

-Hal

Same here with Cox Communications. It's not VOIP at all, just multiplexed on the coaxial cable. Now, services such as Vonage or Skype arrive over cable via VOIP, but that's a different animal.

HJB: You aren't under any obligation to have a telephone drop wire in-place. It's your right to not subscribe to the local telephone company for their service. If someone buys your home, they can order their service from Qwest and have the drop wire plowed in as a part of their minimum connection fee. I wouldn't sweat that at all.

Thanks for the clarification, hbiss & ev607797. I always assumed that it was VoIP since it runs through my cable modem.

I had SunRocket (VoIP company similar to Vonage) and it, too, went through my cable modem.

Hans:

If it goes through your cable modem, then it actually is VOIP. The easiest way to tell is to see where the coax cable enters the building. If it connects to a gray network interface that allows the connection of existing phone wiring to it, then it's regular voice multiplexed over the cable. If something like this isn't present, and your modem or a router is required, then I would agree that it must be VOIP.

VOIP from the cable provider for dial tone is much more reliable than services that rely upon a connection via the public Internet.