atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Picture of Good Work

It appears that there is data in that setup as well, though everything is the same color. To me, this is a problem waiting to happen. I also see that the patches are labeled for length not labeled for what they connect which is the information I want when I look at a setup.

The voice ones are tan and the data ones are gray, at least that's what it looks like to me...

It is the fact that most customers who insist upon having patch panels for voice and data do so with the silly thought that they will be able to place their own connections.

That's reason number one. Reason number two is the silly thought that any cable or jack can be used for either voice or data. Now you have problems breaking out pairs at either end as is normal for voice. You also have the problem of 6 position plugs damaging the pins of 8 position jacks as well as users not knowing which jack is voice and which is data.

Only in the minds of CGs does this make sense.

-Hal

Ughh... looks like it'd be a nightmare to service!

I never suggest a PP for voice... but sometimes, the customer insists and we oblige. We fore-warn them that from our experience it's more of a pain than it's worth and time wasted in general, but they still insist, usually because they're weak and have been drawn into the Dark Side.

Customers are usually ignorant of the fact that when phones move, we move the same physical port... that most phones are not "smart" phones, but "dummy" pieces of equipment. Mostly because the CG has sold them on "I can move your computer to any outlet, phones should be set-up the same".

The "It will save you $ if I do it..." theory. Almost always costs them more in "fix-it" bills instead of "MAC's". The only time I haven't had a CG cost more, is when they've been willing to have us train them (CG) in how to use a punch tool and probe/toner correctly. In those (very few) cases a CG has saved the company LOTS of MAC $, but that's because he/she listened and understood the theory of the phone system moves.

[/rant]

I really appreciate all your replies, does anyone have a picture of work without a patch panel. I would love to see it.

Also is CG = computer geek? I keep thinking it might be general contractor backwards which could also be an apt description.

CG=Computer Geek

GC=General Contractor

EC=Electrical Contractor

You can start here and get a good feel for what needs to be done. Honestly I dont know too many "telecom" folks who like to brag. So there is not much to show. But there are some good looking installs in that thread.

Thanks, page 1 &2 had what I was looking for. I am going to go google a picture of a BIX block now!

You can make patch panels work but you have to invest a lot of money into it. It is by no means a cost savings installation but one more appropriate for a very dynamic office where people move around constantly and one day a connection is a network link the next day it is a phone link and you have a phone switch where you cannot reprogram the extension number but have to cross it to another physical port.

I've done a few of them. You need enough patch panel space to bring in all your Cat 5 or 6 home runs. Then you need another set of patch panels just for whatever phone switch you are using. So you pull off the 110 or 66 block connections for the EXT lines on the switch into a patch panel and then you cross connect using patch cords as needed. I have done it with three racks, side by side. The center rack is for the home runs, the left rack for phone equipment and the right for network.

It worked out great but it was very expensive. We must have sold them 400 patch cords, a dozen 24 port patch panels plus extensive cable raceway, management and tray products. Definetely a deep pockets project.

But I'll agree the person tasked with swapping patch cables is usually so dumb that they never do get it right and they treat it as rocket science. So we still had to come in and fix things. All that money and they basically got very little for it.

Then you have to be diligent and make all your own line cords. If you use 6 po jacks in a 8 pos connector you're usually OK. 4 pos and you bend pins. You cannot count on the employees to care much about this and when they add a phone they just use the patch cord in the box rather than make a new one using 6 pos.

So it can become a real mes unless you are very diligent.

Hal,

i'm following you on all of the above except i don't understand why you recommend not using CAT5 for voice. is there a performance concern or..? and what do you recommend to use instead?

we do a lot of voice and data cabling and i know the decision to only carry CAT5 on our trucks was made primarily because we have limited space and the cost difference between CAT3 and CAT5 was negligible. that being said, i'm a researcher at heart and if there's a good reason to do something, i want to know! =)

tnx!