atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information ibew - elecrical license required

Hal is right. There is no NEC requrement. I've heard of local jurisdictions imposing their own rules on this, but I've never come across it.

The concept has gained acceptance and I think Delmar is teaching it now. Not only do they suggest ground up, but the outlet is installed horizontally, it is supposed to be installed with the Neutral Leg up for the same reasons.

Guess if you use Hal's idea and mount them at a 45 degree angle you'd have to have the Ground and Neutral Legs up. :rofl:

hmm..

i think if the union did anything they would push all techs to get "rated" which would cost the company more up front 100$ a week and long term with higher pension bands..

Hey, MacGyver, when I did electrical work professionaly and now just for myself, I always have kept the neutral side of the receptacle down on horizontal installations. The reason for this has been because having the hot side up, where you can keep an eye on it, you don't risk the possibility of an accidental short against the side of a metal box when removing or installing it. Yes, I usually work it hot unless it's really risky. If you slip with the neutral side and hit the box, the worst that can happen is that you may trip a GFI.

I never got an answer about the fact that any wiring in Chigago must be in metal conduit, even in newly-constructed wood frame homes, not to mention the horizontal receptacle issue.

Anyone have a clue? I think I know the answer, and maybe anyone who knows is afraid to answer for fear of ending up at the bottom of a foundation footing or in the lake with a cinder block tied to their ankles. I really am hoping that there's a more legitimate reason for such a ridiculous requirement.

To me, it seems like a cat pissing to mark his territory. Show everyone that your work is done by "UxxxN" labor to scare away competition.

If you all don't hear from me in the next day or so, you will know why.

The alleged reason (according to the Delmar books) for keeping the Neutral Leg up is the same as for keeping the Ground up. It's supposed to be so that if a metal coverplate was to become dislodged and fall against the prongs it would hit Ground or Neutral.

Seems a little unlikely since when a coverplate usually comes dislodged it's because the plastic plate broke.

Go figure.

BTW, I usually always wire hot too. :toothy:

I believe commercial code in Pa. wants the hot side down on horizontal installs or the ground lug up on vertical. I think because if a plug is partially out of the socket and a coat hanger or metal object or toy falls into contact with the lugs it will ark or short out or both. This is prevented by the neutral or ground on top.

Ed, I had a discussion about Chicago's code maybe a year or so ago with an electrician from that area. Since I like pipe he even sent me several pictures of a house he had just roughed. Amazing!

Anyway, you are right, the union is influential enough to have their way. And this is a way to help keep homeowners and trunk slammers from doing electrical work.

Does HD and other places there sell Romex? Don't remember but I kind of think that the union put the kibosh on that too. Remember, you can't even use BX (AC) or MC armored cable there, only pipe with short lengths of Greenfield for whips where necessary.

-Hal

I was going to ask if flex was allowed or if it all had to be rigid. I have heard stories about wiring in Chicago. I'm guessing there aren't many residential electrical fires there.

Not necessarily rigid, most are done with EMT. Makes it a little easier.

-Hal

I thought that this may be something that dates back to "The Chicago Fire". Maybe that is the reason, but it still seems a bit excessive. I only know of this from watching home improvement shows. For some reason, many of them are produced and filmed in the Chicago area. I still just don't see how they can justify requiring EMT in a new residence. Even in remodels, they have to destroy walls to run EMT. Yes, I have seen them use Greenfield (flex) for short runs, for example to under-cabinet light fixtures, but other than that, it's 100% pipe. There's no doubt that an electrician who can rough-in wood framed houses using EMT has to be good, I mean really good. I am pretty good at bending pipe, but even I have a hard time understanding this one.

EMT is what I meant. I thought about the term rigid after I wrote it. I was using incorrect terminology for "other than flex."

I'm with you Ed. I'm a pretty good pipe bender, but that seems excessive. The Chicago Fire may have been the selling point, but... and this is just my opinioin, but it seems that if a union can get this type of ordinance passed, then they have effectively doubled the amount of electrical work to be done in Chicago.

Don't get me wrong I'm a Capitalist. I believe in making money ever single day, and if the houses are safer then that's good too. I just think that was probably the real reason behind spearheading the code.

"The entire financial industry exists to sell product. If you don't understand this basic maxim, you'll be misled time after time." - Timothy Vick