atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services T1's, CSU's and DSU's Guys I need help with a new T1 line, I'm borderline suicidal!

Okay the story begins 7 years ago. I had a T1 line but I had to disconnect it. Recently I found out that my ReachDSL provider offered T1 Lines for way less than they used to cost when I had a line before. So I ordered it. They are a CLEC but they buy the line from AT&T. Anyways AT&T came out and said the line was ready to go so all I needed was IP information. In the meantime I had bought a Cisco 1721 router with CSU/DSU module. Well my provider informed me I needed a router with ATM protocol. So I had to buy a new router which I found on eBay for cheap. It's an Adtran Total Access 608 3rd gen. So I plug in my old cat5 cable that was still there and it seemed sluggish after plugging in the info. Provider logged into my router and said there was errors on the line. So they suggested before calling ATT for a trouble ticket, I should try a different Cat5 cable. I wired it up at the network interface exactly as before and it doesn't even pick up the connection at all. However if I plug the old one in and wire it back up at the NI it gets a signal but I get errors. I had it wired in the NI with blue and white/blue on bank 1 or whatever its called and green and white green in bank 2. I then noticed today that the manual for the Adtran says the pins for RX ring and tip are pins 1 and 2, it was using pins 3 and 6 before which somehow worked but has mega errors in the line. Which on the router side are white/orange and orange. Not white/green and green. The TX seemed to be fine because it says to use pins 4 and 5 and they are already screwed down in the NI (blue and white/blue). So I had my dad help me rewire it out in the NI that way but it didn't work. I am pulling my hair out. please help!!!

Move the router to the network interface and plug it in. If it runs clean, then your issues are with your internal wiring.

Okay but what do I plug into the smart jack itself? Do I have access to that or does AT&T lock it?

All I have access to are the red green screw box.

If you're coming out of the NID your pins will be 1&2 receive and 4&5 transmit to your T1 interface, no matter what type interface it is.

Well the tricky part is that we had to strip the one end of the cable and hard wire to the NID. If I found a short cat5 with 2 end already on can I connect directly into the smartjack? I'm not sure if its locked or not. It would be a lot easier than running off those pegs or whatever they are called. Also the cable runs I am using are about 50 feet. That should be okay right?

There should be a jack to plug into on the NID, you shouldn't have to hardwire anything. 50 feet is well with-in limits. Search this forum for more information on T1 wiring or RJ48X wiring.

I found a pic of my smart jack when it was installed 7 years ago. But it looks the same I think.

https://www.dslreports.com/speak/slideshow/6612145?c=333272&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3JlbWFyayw2NjEyMTQ1

Okay making progress.. Sort of. In the next pic we unplugged the blue wire from circuit 1, it was not going to anything. Then we plugged in a cat5 cable directly to the router. The green light came on but no net access. What are we doing wrong??

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/P10106891280x768.jpg

Under interfaces on the Adtran the LCV line code violation is going up fast and furious.

Looks like you do only have a hardwire option, at least from what pictured. You've unplugged the telco side plug it back in and wire your cable to the 4 lugs provided. Looks like you have a wiring diagram on the lid of the NID.

EDIT: The Blue cable is yours is it not? The way you have it should work as long as your cable test good and is wired straight through and provided the phone company is giving you the receive on 1&2 and trans on 4&5 like they are suppose to.

In the first set of pictures that you show, the line card itself is visible. Is this the same line card you are using now? The reason I ask, that looks like an HDSL4 card, meaning that the physical span between you and the CO is not actually a T1. The T1 signal (more properly a DS1 or DSX1) is generated locally by that card itself. So this leads to more questions.. What is the actual connection at the CO end - is it a PRI with voice channels or is it a data (internet gateway) connection?

Jim
**************************************************
Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.

I'm taking a picture of how its hard wired. Maybe I didn't do it right. The only way the hard wired cable worked was in the 3 and 6 pin for RX and TX 4 and 5. However if I hook up a different cable in that config it doesn't work. Here is the way I have it hooked up currently but it doesn't work. Any ideas?

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/IMG_15131280x768.jpg

If ATT has RX on 3 and 6 could i put a connector on with the two oranges on 3 and 6 and leave them one and two on the other end?

Using the cable that was placed by the original installer from the NID (the metal box) to the Environmental Mounting for the DS1 (plastic box above metal box) reconnect the white/blue pair to the position labeled #1 and the white/green to the position labeled #2. This should get the H4TUR powered back-up. Then call your carrier and have them perform a BERT test to the r-card or if they can't have them contact AT&T and let them test it. If it test ok then replace your wire but from the looks of things it might be best if you let your carrier or AT&T do it.

Yeah, I found the direct cable I had didn't have the connectors crimped on so I used an already verified working cable to that port on the smart jack box but no dice. Oh well I'm done for the day. I'll see if my provider can connect a new cable when they come out Thursday. *sigh*. I'll hook it back up tomorrow. I guess intermittent is better than non-existent.

These two photos don't look like the same NID!!

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/P10106891280x768.jpg
https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/IMG_15131280x768.jpg

Get it working at the NID with a brand new factory made Cat-5 plugged between the NID jack (the TOP one) and the IAD. Until you get that working, there is not need to mess around with your inside wiring.

It's the same NID. I just connected crap back the way whynot suggested and it works again with the old cable but still getting serious errors on the line in the Adtran. IAD? I tried a cat5 directly from the top jack on the small box and the Adtran and it didn't turn green it was red.

Tommy here is a pic of what I think you mean circled is where I think your saying I should connect the cat 5 ends?

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/huh.jpg

Keep in mind the pic on the right is from the box on the bottom. The blue cable plugged into that top spot appears to go into the house but its not being used. I'll check again tomorrow. I'm beat. But if you can explain like I'm a toddler maybe I'll get it.

Those two NIDS do NOT look the same..
One has an 8 pin mod jack and the other has a 4 pin.

So AT&T kind of screwed me over?

Ok I think I figured it out.
The top NID is/was for the T1.
The bottom NID is for POTS.
Are they sending your T1 through that NID now? If so where is the smartjack?
You need to have a smartjack and card SOMEWHERE...
You had the blue cable connected to two pairs on the POTS NID...

They have me wired in slots 1 and 2 in the bigger POTS box for the T1. The Smart jack in in the small boxes door and it appears to be inaccessible to me. Its screwed down.

Currently I have white/blue and blue in slot 1 and white green and green in slot 2. Adtran says pins 1 and 2 (white/orange and orange wires) should be used for RX which I tried but it won't work.

you need to have a smartjack somewhere...
i feel like something has not been installed by your provider.

The smartjack is physically in the small box in the door of it. Once the box is opened its in the door's box. Old pictures but this is sort of how it appears when AT&T opens it.

Here it is when opened

https://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/333272~8e25a0416198744ee06d052d7ece5c39/DSC03448Large.JPG

Here it is when its closed.

https://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/333273~6f9daa15cbc4ecaf3b0f6719af1f6c05/DSC03449Large.JPG

It uses some weird screw and I don't think AT&T wants me opening it.

Well no, they don't...I guess I would just wait for them to come out, but definitely let us know what happens.

My friend whose had T1's in the past said he's always connected to the smart jack directly and never gave it a thought. Wish I could...

Okay my new friends, the mystery deepens. The Blue Cat5 that is plugged into that small box and into Port 1 of 2 of circuit 1 is the cable that is the cable I have in my router. For some reason my Dad thought it was a different blue cable and that were were hard wiring it into the POTS. The POTS wire is actually a gray wire that is wired into the smart jack box and appears to be on the AT&T side that is locked out. Here is a picture of both boxes open. If you notice a wet box its because we forgot to close it last night and it rained. OOPS!

So tomorrow I will try a different Cat 5. If that still has errors in the line then it's either the gray cable where I have to access to the other end because AT&T has that part locked or its my router needing to be serviced.

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/IMG_15341280x768.jpg

The way you have it should work if you have the other end wired correctly. Assuming as you said the blue cable goes to your router. Look at the 8 pin jack, with the clip down left to right are pins 1-8. Pins 1&2 and 4&5 whatever colors are on those pins need to be on the same pins on the other end.

The Gray one you have unplugged is if you'd hardwire instead of plugging into the jack.

If the w/or is on pins one and two on the NID end then that's what needs to be on pins one and two on the router end. Same with whatever color is on pins four and five. It should be that simple.

If I changed the wiring scheme on the gray cable it made it not work when connecting directly from the jack. Not sure why but it had a effect. Should I remove the wires that are hard wired or leave them connected? The gray one is in the POTS box.

The one in the POTS box you can't get access to it's under the cover (in the T1 NID) with the circuit discription on it. The gray one that is unplugged (top NID) only gives it to you on the hardwire as stated previously.

Did you verify the pins and colors as suggested?

No In my side of the POTS has the the following currently, plus the blue cable that is plugged into the small box.

This is the Pots box current config.

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/IMG_1534t1.jpg

This is where the blue cable is connecting currently.

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/Kamakzie/IMG_1533t1.jpg

I don't get why they make me use both??

You don't have to use both. The gray wire that goes from the NID (metal) to the environmental mounting (plastic) is how AT&T is getting the HDSL signal from the NID to the H4TUR located behind the door in the environmental mounting. All you need to be concerned with is where the blue cat5 is plugged in. Take your router outside and plug it directly into the RJ48C (where the blue CAT5 is now) if it works there it's your wire.

Hmmm then I wonder why when we messed with the wiring scheme in the POTS big metal box it made the directly connected blue wire mess up in the small box. I'm going to try a new CAT5 in a little bit. Should the POTS wires be unhooked?

I think you need to re-read some of the sound advise you've been given. :scratch:

NO. It would be best to avoid even touching the POTS side of the installation, because the span power is probably turned on - that is how the HDSL4 card gets its operating power. It can shock you, especially when it is wet!

Please re-read whynot's last post, the one right above your last post.

Jim
**************************************************
Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.

Okay so the ports 1 and 2 of the pots labled T-1 obviously do something then, the white/blue - Blue and white green - green. I'm checking the blue cat5 for corrosion now and if I see none I will connect with a new cat5.

Alright I took the router out to the box and connected the network port on the Adtran directly to the spot that is where the old cat5 was connected. Still getting errors on the line when looking at the status in the router. Also getting about 18% packet loss between my router and the gateway server. Should I have them put in a trouble ticket with AT&T? He said it could be my router has issues but I kind of doubt it.

Well................... kinda hard to say it's not the router.

Well they are bringing another Adtran on Thursday to see if its indeed my router. My router is under warranty until 2016 but it takes 2 weeks for repairs. So if the router is indeed the issue they are going rent me one until mine comes back for repairs.

LOL!!! Saw the obvious there too huh.

Yeah, they are bringing you the signal for the T1. :rolleyes: ... It's HDSL4 format so there is nothing you should need or want to be using there.

Sorry guys if I sound like a dummy. I just want to get the dropped packets issue figured out. I hope we figure it out when the place I bought the line from comes down. I thank everyone for their patience.

Well I feel like a schmo! It was the router... So I have a loaner till I send in my owned router for repairs. I'm happy that this thing is working properly. Time to call Adtran.

Good to hear you finally found the answer to your problem. Although it may have taken you 25 posts and a lot of trial and error (along with years of experience from this board to help get you there), remember this - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR ON EBAY!
In the members forum there is a "Buy/Sell Telephone Equipment" section where you may purchase equipment from folks in this industry who know what they are doing.
As always, caveat emptor, and hopefully, caveat venditor.

Well at least it was under warranty, I lucked out there.

Glad to hear you got it working!

I noticed on the loaner Adtran that I will get 1 or 2 errored seconds every once in a while, which isn't bad considering I would get over 10,000 sometimes with the one sent in for repairs.

Too funny, Since the last posting I've been dealing with Adtran to get a router that doesn't get errors. They sent me a new 608 router and it got the same errors but the loaner 604 works fine. Then they sent me a test unit which was a 600R model and it didn't work either. In the meantime I bought a cheap 600R off ebay that was new and it worked fine! So Adtran is still trying to get me a router that works. I've probably made case history with them.

Update. ISP switched me from ATM to PPP and now I get a lot closer to the full T1 speed. I get around 1.44 down and the same up. Before I got around 1.26 with ATM.