atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services T1's, CSU's and DSU's Can a noob do inside wiring for T1?

I hope that the forum members allow non-techs to post here. If this is a private place I apologize.

I live in rural Southern Indiana and I finally got tired of having lousy wireless broadband. I ordered a T1 from AT&T and just had my technical interview.

My house is 3 years old. I suspect that it has 4 pairs installed to the NID (This is the the box outside my house?)

I have two voice lines now, but once the T1 is installed I will cancel at least one of them right away.

When I placed the order with AT&T, I told them I would do my own inside wiring. I've been thinking and reading this forum and I'm wondering if I need to have a professional do it.

I've done plenty of Cat5 cabling and terminating. I make my own cat-5 patch cables. I wired my basement phone jacks with no problem.

Is T1 really different? I imagined that the installer (verizon) would bring the 2 extra pairs to my NID and then those pairs would be available at all of the jacks in my house (the builder didn't do home runs). It was my idea that I would just take those two pairs, install an extra jack, and hook that up to my router.

Am I crazy or close or none of the above?

Thanks for any help. I have a call into the AT&T P.M. in case I need to order inside wiring service.

Art

Art:

Chances are, they will terminate your T1 in an outdoor NID. This NID will provide you with an RJ48X jack. If you wire a straight-through cable using the 568A or B wiring plan (same at both ends of course), then you should be fine.

I assure you that the telco will not connect your new circuit to the other pairs in your existing building wiring. They will leave it outside at best. Regardless, that is bad practice anyway to loop a T1 circuit from outlet to outlet in a residence. Forget about using the existing wiring, seriously.

You really should install a home-run cable and terminate this cable on a true RJ48X jack at the equipment end to keep it proper.

Using existing pre-wiring in a new home wired by electricians is not worth even trying to use. You need to route the T1 circuit via a clean cable run to your channel bank or router.

Oh, and:

Keep in mind that the RJ48x jack is not ethernet. You will have to provide and configure (according to the service provided) a channel bank or CSU/DSU. That will provide for your ethernet into your router and phone lines (if you have phone lines on the T1).

-Hal

Thanks for all the replies.

So on my side of the NID I will have a jack that I can plug into and run it to where my CSU/DSU is? That's easy enough.

I'll just need to find a drill bit long enough to get through my exterior brick wall and get the guts to drill it into the basement. :toast:

Yes, you will be provided with an RJ48X jack on the customer side of the NID.

Thanks again.

I just received my "Customer Confirmation Document". Soon I might have an install date.

If you're going to extend from the NID much more than 10 to 15 feet, you'll want to keep the Tx pair separate from the Rx pair. Either with two lengths of Cat5 cable, or a single length of cable where the two pairs are individually shielded.

I know that is the right way to do it...but at my HS, for example, they ran the T1 lines from the demarc to the computer room using regular 25 pair phone cable...nothing special, no separate binders or anything, and it works fine. This is a pretty good distance too. Actually, the lines come into the building in the electrical room, then are sent to a protector where the phone system is, and then out. It's a weird setup.

I was looking over some pinout charts, and noticed that the RJ-48C seems to be the same as the RJ-48X jack except for the shorting bars. It says here that both of those jacks are for 1.544 Mbps data service. Where would you use the RJ-48C (without the shorting bars) instead of the RJ-48X (with the shorting bars)?

Is "1.544 Mbps data service" always a T1 or PRI line, or is there some other 1.544 Mbps data service out there?

Probably just a matter of choice. The shorting bars provide a loopback when the plug is removed. Some people may not want that.

Is it just me or does 1.544 Mbps make you think of dial up compared to 15Mbps that even the cable company will give you now for less than $30 a month? (Of course that's when the kids aren't home from school.)

-Hal

I am about to extend a private T1 line from my Asterisk PBX, located in the basement of my house, to a channel bank in my barn. I will be using two pairs in a 6-pair BSW. The distance is about 200 feet.

I am pondering the above quote, and wonder why that advice is being offered, when T1 lines are often sent from a CO to a subscriber's premises over miles of Cat-nuttin', in regular subscriber OSP.

Perhaps you can explain it to me?

Arthur -

It's been my experience that when the Phone Company sends a T-1 from the CO on copper they send the transmits and receives on at least different binders if not different cables.

Sam

I am trying to understand how we are supposed to fit a pair from two separate shielded cables into a single plug and not have it look kludgy. Also, what do we do with the extra pairs? Also, it seems that connectors 7 and 8 are supposed to be used for grounding. When the Telco terminates it's T1 into an RJ-48X jack, does it usually ground connectors 7 and 8? If we use shielded cable, how do we go about connecting the shielding as well as wires 7 and 8 to connectors 7 and 8 in the modular plug? Can we use ordinary 8p8c modular plugs for T1?

You don't put a plug on it. You terminate it on an RJ48X and then use a short (standard) patch cord to connect it to the equipment.

I've never seen positions 7&8 grounded.

Trim back the shields and tape the end of the cable.

Again - Don't put a plug on the cable.

Sam

Well, the proper way is to terminate both cables on a split block, then run a patch cable with solid wires and punch them down to the appropriate pairs on that same block. There are 2,3,4 and 6 pair split blocks that are perfect for this application. Obviously with outdoor installations, the block will need to be contained within some kind of proper weatherproof enclosure, like an AT&T B-CSC, C-CSC or D-CSC.

Honestly, with regard to the grounding of pins 7/8, I've never really checked. I seriously doubt that anybody even worries about that anymore. I know for sure that on indoor installations, Verizon never does anything with pins 7/8.

Shielded cable includes a drain wire. The drain wires from each cable should be joined together at the block and connected to a suitable ground connection. It is usually easiest to punch these drain wires down on the bottom two rows of clips on the block and just bridge them together. That way, a single pair jumper wire can be used to make the final connection to a suitable ground.

Many of today's outdoor T1 network interfaces include both screw/IDC terminals and an RJ48X jack per circuit. That way, you still have the option to terminate separate cable pairs with minimal effort. These also include a CPE grounding terminal in them to accommodate the drain wires.

Yes, a standard 8P8C plug will work just fine for this application.

Oops! I forgot the original point of the thread that the NID was outside. I would hope that the Telco would bring the demarc inside. There are no weatherproof RJ-48X jacks that I know of.

I guess if there's no room in the outdoor enclosure for another jack and a cord then you've got no choice but to put a head on the cables.

It would be a pretty crappy install on the part of the phone company to force you into that situation. I would complain if they stuck you with that.

Sam

Sam:

They now have T1 network interfaces that look like a "pregnant" standard outdoor NID. Inside the cover is all of the electronic gear in a sealed compartment. They then have the left side for the telco incoming connection to the protectors and the right side for CPE terminations. They are very common in these parts since labor is kept to a minimum for the Verizon installers.

During the miles of cat-nuttin', it might very well be carried on a single pair... so there's no reason to care. Once it comes inside, and becomes 2 pair. Then the longer those two pairs are in contact, the more distorted the signals will get, and Cat5 is actually the worst, because after the twists, 10 feet of cable is at least 12 feet of wire.

I know this because my customers often use any standard Cat5 cable to connect between their smart jacks and my dialers, and sometimes a cross over between the dialer and channel banks or other equipment. They can usually get away with it, as long as the distances are short... like a standard 2m patch cable (6 feet).

But then there was this one customer whose IT department was at odds with the communications department, and tried to put the dialer in the server room, while their PBX was in the phone room. Both rooms were quite sizable, so the cable they used was a 50 foot Cat5e patch cord. They wondered why the recordings they were doing were so scrambled.... We didn't realize this cabling issue immediately, of course. First we tried replacing the hardware, and swapping ports on their switch. The best part was when the tech who ran the cable, said in his whiny voice, "But we used Cat5e - the best there is!" Great for a 350Mhz signal... not so great for a 1.5Mhz signal

My recommendation of 10-15 feet, is from some testing I did. I cut Cat5 cable to lengths of 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 feet. I punched them down to a jack on each end (crossed over) connected to two different Dialogic T1 cards using 3 foot Cat3 patch cords (additional 6 feet). Then played an audio file from one end, and recorded it on the other. I could definitely notice the distortion on the 20 foot cable... it was probably tolerable to someone not listening for it, though. But audio distortion is one thing... the OP's data T1 won't like it much.

I don't think 200 feet is going to work so well for you....

Hi all. They went ahead and scheduled the install while I am out of town. My representative told me that I don't need to be home. Here is the quote from the representative....

"If the LEC has access to the MPOE it is not necessary for you to be there."

I guess that means they will install the jack on my side of the NID and I will be able to extend it inside when I get home. Should I expect it to work or is there normally another step after that?

Thanks!

That should be it.

When you connect to it you'll probably have to call your Vendor and let them know to take the circuit out of Loop Back or Maintenance mode.

Awesome. I'm flying back home won't be back until midnight friday, so Saturday morning I guess I get to hook up my csu/dsu and see how far I get.

Thanks again.

They laid a new wire across my lawn from the telephone box at my neighbors house!

I see that on the customer side of the box I have two jacks, one is handwritten T1 REC, the other, T1 SND. They both have one pair, and the jack that is installed next to them has just two prongs on it.

I'm going to see if I can bring both of those pairs into my house and see what I get.

I had several calls from verizon and another company. Verizon wants to come and do the inside wiring, the other wants to bury the line.

That installation is fairly typical. Current constructions standards are for a 5 or 6 pair buried drop to the house. My guess is that your home only has a two pair drop, so they stole one from your neighbor temporarily. They will bury the proper cable for no charge, but be careful about letting them do any inside wiring. They may charge you an arm and a leg for it.

And make sure they get a 'locate' out there and if you have a septic tank, or well, you NEED to know where the tank and lines to and from, as well as the field, are! They'll have to accept responsibility for the cable tv, natural gas, water, and power if you tell them to get it ALL located. But a septic tank system is sorta left up to the homeowner to know about. Ditto, if you have a well. If you have either and don't know where it lies, the controlling entity, city or county, when the house was built is where you start. Typically, the health department, believe or not. Unless, of course, you know who put it in! John C.

If I take both pairs inside the house, do I hook them up to the Rj48X jack like this? Does this diagram mean that transmit goes to 2 & 5 and receive goes to 1 & 4?




I don't have an RJ48X jack around, I'll have to order one. Is it possible in the meantime to use a Cat-5E jack with the same pins?

Thanks again.

I'm aware of the calling and locating other wiring first. That part of my lawn has a buried propane tank, existing phone line, electrical utility and things they probably won't check for like invisible dog fence and water sprinklers :toothy:

Correct on the wiring and a plain 8pin jack will work. The purpose of the 48X is to keep the circuit live when you pull the mod plug out.

Thanks. :toast:

justbill is half right and probably just misread what you typed.

The T and R stand for Tip and Ring not transmit and receive. On your 8 pin jack pins 4 and 5 will be tx and 1 and 2 will be rx. After you wire your jack up and plug in your csu/dsu you should get a carrier detect (cd) light. If you do you're good to go as far as the wiring, if not, then switch your tx and rx at the jack and see what happens.

You're right I did mis-read that. The T&R 1&2 are the receive, from the network. The T1&R1 4&5 are the transmit to the network. Sorry.

I don't have DCD. I did get a shock when I touched the wires

Outside on the box I have a green and red screws.
I hooked up RX pin 4 to red and 5 to green. Then I did TX 1 to green and 2 to red.

I went into the router config and I don't see DCD.

Since I'm pretty sure I have TX and RX right, should I switch the pairs? Also, I'm using a regular Cat 5E Patch cable to go from my jack to the router. is this OK?

Thanks for the all the help.

Yes you can switch the pairs, you'll do no harm. Your straight through patch cord should work. You could also tie 1 to 4 and 2 to 5 to loop it back and see if the NID syncs up, that would test your wiring. If you have a mod plug and crimper just make yourself a loopback plug to plug into you jack, that will check everything you've done. Another way to do it if you don't have the crimper is take another 8pin jack and tie the rec and transmit to make a loopback and plug you patch cord into it, again you'll check everything you've done.

How would I tell if the NID syncs up?

Also, since I haven't talked to At&t or Verizon since the installation am I wasting my time because the circuit might not be turned on? Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that they might have to turn the circuit up.

There should be lights on the NID that indicate it's getting a signal. Not knowing what NID it is I don't know what lights you have, but it will make sense when you look at it. Some even have a sync light, some will have a transmit and receive light.

Ok I see. I have LP, AL, and CD. Cd isn't on.

I switched the pairs around. I guess I'll just wait to see what the vendor says tomorrow.

LP=loopback CD=carrier detect AL=not positive but I think it's for Active Link. If no CD your aren't receiving a signal same with AL if I'm correct on what it means. If it is Active link you'd have to have a signal bothways for it to light, so that would be where your loopback plug could determine circuit wiring.

I see how you told me to create a loopback plug, but I'm missing something. If I connect the loopback plug into my jack, where will I see a light that there is a connection?

Thanks for helping on Sunday!

At the NID, but if you don't have a CD light at the NID you're not receiving anything.

Thought I'd let everyone know how I made out. The verizon installers were great. They came back on the following Monday and put the smartjack in. I guess hooking up my 2 pair myself wasn't worth it.

After they finished, they reported to AT&T that everything was done. I did a test with AT&T and they reported they could see the router.

since I was configuring my own router, I spent a day or two playing with the config, asking some friends, etc, and I still couldn't get online. I finally hired a Cisco expert and he told me that AT&T needed to turn on some routes.

I spent several days trying to convince AT&T that they needed to turn on routes, they had me rebooting my PC and other silly things.

Finally I emailed the tech that was responsible for the turn on. I Told her I thought some routes were missing. She told me that she was "just thinking about my circuit" and was checking things out and noticed she didn't turn on one of my routes. Everything was fine after that.

Thanks for all the help from here. I was a little disappointed that I can only get 178Kbps download from newsgroups, but I can get all of my work done, and I haven't had an outage yet.

Jack

If you have a T1, you should be getting the same up and down.

What I meant was after install speedtest was testing at 1.5 but downloading from newsgroups tops out at 178kbps. Download and upload are usually the same, but today Speedtest.net is showing a slight difference. I have QOS turned on on my router so I doubt speedtest would show 1.5 anymore.

Gee, used to be that a T1 was the gold standard for speed.

And here I am complaining about my lousy speed.

<a href="https://www.speedtest.net"></a>

jacktucky, if you consistently get ping timings over 200ms, you may want to give ATT Worldnet a call.

And this is one to the Owensboro server:

Seems like I'm getting double your numbers and half the ping time, and I'm 700 miles farther away.

Unfortunately, ISPs are not obligated to provide low latency in connections, unlike their obligations re:bandwidth. But they should be able to provide more efficient routing (if they want to keep you as a customer?)

This is a nifty tool, the lite version is free. Try the "live" demo: web page

Im getting some pretty crappy speed here too.

https://www.speedtest.net/result/370779344.png

Wireless I'm getting 15/5

No complaints about Fios

Sam

Just ran a speed test here in the office at school.

The computer is slooow but I guess our internet isn't bad!

Use RJ48X if you can-- the reason is simple. Automatic loopback if you disconnect your side. Benefit: The local CO won't get a LOS/RED Alarm, and they won't OOS your circuit after a period of inactivity.

A T1 is 1.544MBit circuit. The fact that you are getting 178KBps means you're getting all of it.

Bits vs. Bytes

bit=1
byte=11111111

A 178Kilobyte per second transfer rate(Computer Data) would be equivalent to a bit rate of 1.424Million bits per second.

BIT=1
CRUNCH=1111
BYTE=11111111
WORD=1111111111111111

Guys, it doesn't make sense to start tagging onto a thread that ended over two months ago. Please note the date of the last post before you tag on. This has been happening way too much lately.