atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services T1's, CSU's and DSU's Turning a DS3 into 28 T-1's

Help!! Here's the story: Ordered a DS3 to replace 20 T-1's. It is cheaper on the network side and everybody at the ld carrier said it will work exactly the same as T-1's. Now I am being told it will not and it is due to be installed in two days. The signaling I need is d4-AMI. They want to know if it will be either ss7 or PRI. Our equipment is too old for both. How do I make this work? I have heard about using a multiplexor or a mux? But how do I know if I am getting the right one and if it will work. My equipment is based off of the D240sc t-1 rev1 dialogic boards. I also use a 1980's phone system from possibly inter-tel with the Premier logo on it. Ultimately, I need to have 28 T-1's from the DS3? Any tricks? What equipment do I need? How should the carrier set up the DS3? Thank you in advance for all of your help!

AMI D4 signalling is old. I haven't seen a B8ZS to AMI D4 converter. Your carrier is asking about protocol translations not T1 line signalling. I had to upgrade an entire PBX when SBC upgraded their CO over a weekend to Fujitsu Muxs that wouldn't support AMI D4. Good luck. Maybe someone knows of a way around it that I don't know.

Thank you for the help! The main problem appears to be taking the DS3 and turning it into individual T-1's. There has to be a way to do it. I have contacted everyone possible and have placed my faith in this forum. I have read tons of posts and you guys are awesome! What I am thinking is using a multiplexor or mux such as the mx2800 series from adtran and finding a way to make it work??? Does anyone have any clue on how to do this? I have no equipment at this point other than my dialing equipment and I am not sure what to do. Thanks again!!

Okay here we go....

The first thing you need is to get the proper equipment. Any M13 mux will break out the individual t1’s from the ds3. The Adtran MX2800 should be okay but it will need the proper configuration. Unless you have a DC power plant you will want the AC power model. I would suggest you put it on an UPS also. You also want to get the M13 control card not the STS-1. You will be using M13 framing on the DS3 not C-bit. The DS3 side of the circuit is referred to as the high-speed side. The t1 side is referred to as the low-speed side. On the t1 side you will need to physically breakout the t1’s. For the MX2800 it appears you will need a couple of accessories. It looks like you will want to get the 64-pin amp cable to the RJ48 patch panel. Your t1’s will appear on the patch panel in order, DSX-1 channels 1-28.

The t1’s are individuals and need their framing and coding set for the type of t1 on a particular channel. For instance; channel 1 on the ds3 is an sf/ami t1 so you set the mux channel 1 for sf/ami. Channel 2 is esf/b8zs so you set channel 2 for esf/b8zs, etc……….. TL1 commands are pretty basic but can get complicated very quickly. Not all mux’s use TL1 but it looks like the MX2800 does. The Manual with the mux should have the commands in it.

Basically it’s fairly simple. You have a DS3 signal on two coax cables, TX and RX. Those cables will plug in to the DS3 mux. The mux will break out the T1’s respectively to the DSX-1 panel.

This is a T3 not a bunch of t’1s. Remember, your t1 orders are ordered to arrive to you on the DS3. When you order a t1, it’s CFA (carrier facility assignment) is ordered on your DS3 and mapped on the DLR (design layout record).

Good luck

NEC used to make an M13 mux, the RC-28D. I don't know if it is still in production, but it was a nice compact unit. This is a picture of it:

https://www.teledonsolutions.com/Imgs/products/item_sales/ThreeNEC_RC28D_M13_Multiplexers.png

Our old switch site used them and they gave us very few problems.

28d's are tough as nails. you need a wire wrap gun to wire them to a dsx panel and DC power only. Line coding is set by a dip switch on the low speed cards. Easy. Although this may not be the best mux for an end user because of the DC power.

is dexman your name because you work on dsc dex switch's?

you guys are so AWESOME! Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Another question? What does the ld carrier have to signal the ds3 at to make it work for us?? They are asking, and I do not have the answer.

Hey SST!

Yup, you figured me out. The company I work for (a national IXC/CLEC) has used DSC (now Alcatel) DEX switches for more than 15 years [DEX-400, 600 & 600E].

Alcatel has obsoleted the DEX platform and our company is in the process of decom'ing them and installing VOIP switches.

The new switches (Sonus) are nice and compact, but the DEX's interface is much better. :thumb:

I'm not sure what is meant by "signal". :confused:

If you want to break the DS3 signal down to 28 individual DS1s, you would order a "Muxed" DS3.

If you wanted to use the DS3 as a single pipe, say for high speed data access, you would order a "Concatenated" [C-Bit] DS3.

Thanks Dex and SST. Honestly, I am not sure either. Here is the solution I am proposing and thinking will work: Use a MX2800 M13 Multiplexor with an AC Power Supply. Use an RJ patch panel to break down my 28 T-1's w/ a 64 pin to 64 pin cables. Then use 2 coax cables to connect that to the DS3. Sound good? Also I think we will get the ds3 with the SS7 signaling to run sf D4 AMI so my equipment will interface with it. What do you think? And if I have trouble with the wiring will you guys be able to give advice? You guys are the s***! Thank you!!! oh, and there is a B8zs to AMI converter out there! I had to use it on a bad install from ITC Deltacom. (They installed B8zs wehen we REPEATEDLY requested D4 AMI).

Sounds Ok , this is a great place to get help . I am not sure about 64 pin cables to a RJ PATCH Panel ?

The 64 pin amp to rj48 patch panel is in the accesories page of the adtran web page. This seems to be the simplest solution for and end user.

Ordering the SS7 signaling is okay if your switch is an SSP (signalling point). If memory serves me correctly, you need to be able to accept an A-link if connecting to an STP and if connecting to another SSP it would be an F-link. These are typicall 56k circuits that will need to break out of a channel bank, usually on v.35 connectors.

https://www.pt.com/tutorials/ss7/

dexman, I worked on the dex 400, 600, and 600e for several years, several years ago. I don't run in to too many people that have ever even heard of those switch's.

Does any of these company's sound familiar: Allnet, Frontier, GC?

Hi again SST,

You got me! I stated out at Allnet in 1990, went through the mergers with Frontier and Global Crossing. Survived 2 rounds of layoffs so I guess they like me here.

Hi Jason,

The T1 configuration is separate from the DS3 configuration. You can order a Muxed DS3 and request the T1s be optioned as ESF/B8ZS or D4/AMI.
The company you order the circuit from should be able to configure the T1s either way.

With SS7, you will need to obtain a DPC and order service from a provider.

dexman, I worked with WCT in L.A. when the Allnet Frontier merger happened. Switch 16, we added the dms500 for local, and then built Anaheim with two 600e's and another dms500. We divided out techs in to maintenance and install. I was the install OTL. I got whacked in round 4. I still drop in to the switches every once and while to say Hi to Manny, Edwin and the rest of the crew. I worked with another small carrier for a short time but the carrier life is too demanding. So, I decided to go work back in the station world.

Hey SST,

Edwin & Manny are now working out of Anaheim.

I gave Edwin a call and he said, yeah, that's Stuart. He said that you probably remember me (Paul in Boston)?

I said "hi" to Edwin for ya. He might be calling you!

Yea, I remember Paul in Boston. :toast: It's a small world, huh. I'm not sure if we ever crossed tracks in any training, though. I kinda' miss those days but not the hours or pressure. :bang: Working 24/7 then laid-off because of poor executive management! :scratch:

Dex/Sst,

What is a DCP? The service provider is able to send D4 AMI so you guys are right on! Also, what kind of service will I need to order and what apporximately is the cost? SO far, using the DS3 might not be saving me any money. Thanks again for all of your help!

Yup. It is a small world.

There hasn't been a whole lot of pressure here at the Boston switch. Even oncall duty has become more relaxed.

Hope you're doing well in the CPE sector. :thumb:

It can be just a competitive as it is on the supply side.

Sentra, it's DPC (destination point code) it identifies your switch in the ss7 network. Again, I'd be surprised if your equipment can handle ss7 connectivity. PRI is probably a better choice for call set-up.

DPC is short for Destination Point Code. It identifies your switch from other SS7 switches and is used to route calls to you as well as establish SS7 service to your switch.

One very simplistic way to think of SS7 is as if you were looking right at a person, face to face.

You see the person (T1 circuit) and you can talk to the person (SS7). If SS7 goes down you can still see each other, but you can't communicate with each other.

SST is right. In most cases ISDN service or even standard T1E&M is the way to go, unless you are running a Central Office type switch (Lucent 5E or Nortel DMS-100).

You guys are the best! FOr some reason the carrier is only giving me the options of SS7 or PRI. As I said before, both are too new for my equipment. I am going into a conference with the carrier to put in the T1E&M wink, which is what I ordered. Thanks again for all of your help!

OK, I found out what the BIG problem is. The underlying carrier is PNG, Powernet Global. They use a switch that can only use PRI or SS7 signaling. Is there a solution to switch ss7 or pri to the E&M wink?

If the provider can give you ISDN (PRI) service and your equipment has the capability to work with ISDN service, that would be the way to go only if your equipment can handle ESF/B8ZS circuits.

I would love to know why PNG can't provide you with standard T1E&M service. It's a real bread & butter format.

You could also shop around and kick the tires of other service providers to see if they can give you a DS3 with D4/AMI T1s and T1E&M signalling at a similar or lower cost.

It can't hurt to try! :thumb:

thanks dex and I appreciate all of the help you guys have given me. Apparently PNG uses a switch that only supports PRI and ss7 signaling. They do not have the physical equipment needed to provide us with D4 AMi. We are looking at replacing the DS3 with T-1's from the same provider. The only reason we even went with the DS3 in the first place was to get Paetec's pricing format out to us with a loop cost that is bearable for us because we are in the middle of nowhere. Back to the drawing board... Thanks again!

Interestingly enough, Paetec has an OPS site in the same building my office is located in.

I know what they do have for a switch in their space and it does support T1E&M.

Assuming that they use the same type of switch throughout their network, maybe they can give you a good price on T1E&M trunks.

Try using the Carrier Access Widebank 28 multiplexer. Very easy to operate, multiple framing and encoding choices, Redundant controller and power supplies. Very affordable. You can find them on Ebay.