atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Why NOT to buy an IP system

Just thinking about why there seems to be so many more poor network/data guys vs. phone guys. It is related to the IP discussion but maybe we should start a separate thread. Below are are some of my thoughts. I welcome your comments and flames.

1. The average age of a phone guy is much more than network guys resulting in lack of experience and maturity.
2. With just a paper cert and being able to operate a mouse can qualify you for an IT job in some organizations. Not so with telephony positions.

More to come...
TekMason

I'd not be so quick to blame the techs. Community colleges are mostly tax payer funded and what with the wave of tax resentment washing over the land CCs have taken huge hits to their budgets. This does underscore a critical point: VoIP is very expensive and doing it on the cheap will only lead to a disaster and a waste of money. You can have a flaky data network and nobody notices because errors get corrected and delays are measured in milliseconds. But you do not have that luxury with VoIP. Any weakness in the infrastructure will be heard in your ear.

Point taken PMCook.
However, I don't think that funding cuts is a valid excuse for shoddy work though. It doesn't cost more money to do a neat and tidy job and clean up the mess. BTW I work for a municipal government and money is not exacly flowing IT's way. We have to constantly learn to do more with less and work smarter not necessarily harder.

From TeletypeJoe's post, it appears that the network is so bad that it is having a major impact on some of the most error tolerant data applications (email and Internet access).

True, PCs and other data devices are much forgiving to delays. However, in my experience this forgiveness usually just masks the fundamental problems and you will get bitten in the butt eventually because the underlying problems never go away and only get worse.
TekMason

To me, at least in my experience, VOIP is a solution to a problem that did not exist. The analog system worked fine, worked when storms knocked out the power, worked every hour of every day that I was there.

The VOIP system worked *maybe* fifty percent of the time. It had no features that I could use, and none that I needed. The problems were continuous, as were the excuses. The only good thing that came of it (once the analog Cortelcos were installed) is that they can angle nicely to use as a foot rest under my desk.

For my computer / internet needs at work, I use a laptop with wireless service that my department pays the subscription for as the IP system stinks and internet use is horrible. It is easier to use the wireless system then log on to the district's main website to access the student database that to use the wired network.

And the sad thing is this... the VOIP system that was *supposed* to save us "millions" actually according to the accounting department costs us far more than the analog system cost.

Because of all of this, if I were to ever have a business, I would never use IP telephony.

Joe

Indeed. I have learned that I will never, and I mean never, quote an IP ystem until I have done a thorough evaluation and possibly even ran a Wireshark collection for 24 hours. And if I determine that they need to spend a lot of money on their infrastructure and they balk, well I'll walk. There is no hell like network hell. I can see a lot of pissed off customers blaming me for their crappy network. And a lot of declined invoices which could easily ruin me with the first one. VoIP has the potential for being a real snake pit.

@TeletypeJoe
It is unfortunate that you had such a difficult time with your VoIP system and data network. Let me assure you that it is possible to provision a reliable and redundant network that works well all of the time. This includes providing power to your phone when the power goes out with UPSs in the same way your digital/analog phone gets power. It costs money to do this but we already have to spend that money to ensure that our network is reliable and redundant.
I am actually surprised that your IP phone worked as much as 50% of the time if with your PC/data network being so bad.
BTW I'd buy that Cisco IP set for enough to get yourself a darn fancy foot stool.
@PMCook
You are a very wise man to do a network evaluation before quoting an IP system. Customers are always looking for a scapegoat when a project goes bad. The guy that sold and configures the VoIP that doesn't work (for whatever reason) is always the target.
TekMason

We have been told that by next fall there will be a major IT upgrade to the network done by outside contractors. I do not doubt those who say that a IP phone system can be made to work well, and maybe it will work well for us once the upgrade is finished. I only hope that the install is done as neatly as the old phone system installation was.

However, in our situation, I just see no need for it. I will grant you that I am a bit of an "old schooler" when it comes to some tech things,(remember, I collect, use and restore 1940's-1950's era communication equipment) but I also understand and appreciate the need for computers and networking. Heck, I even have an I-pad along with my notebook. I might even be willing to accept the idea of IP telephony in a large (say educational institution) if the physical plant is being built from the ground up. However, for existing facilities with an in place analog phone system that works and works well, why change?

I am not slamming network guys. I just see the wisdom in the old addage of 'why fix it if it ain't broke?'

TeletypeJoe said:
Not True!! The problem was very real: Analog and TDM phone systems last for years and years, which is a nightmare for a marketing department that is used to customers who upgrade their hardware and software every year. IT executives hate the idea of equipment with a life span even more than you hate cheap plastic crap. The reasons for this hatred of real telecommunications equipment are many:

1. It's not cheap plastic crap. You really expect them to buy something that doesn't look like a kid's toy? Perish the thought.

2. It's not disposable. Therefore, they are expected to actually install the equipment, rather than simply laying it on the floor and taping the cables to the wall with masking tape. What a PITA.

3. Again, it's not disposable. Therefore, they are expected to find and fix any bugs (another PITA), rather than just telling the end user to wait a few months for the new version.

I could go on like this, but you have all heard my rants too many times already...

Jim
**************************************************
Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.

Do software upgrades count towards down time?

Typically scheduled downtime or outages do not count. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_availability#Scheduled_and_Unscheduled_Downtime