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T&R - I totally agree with you about the problems of pluging rj11 in rj45 jacks.
I always terminate my voice cable in a 6p4c rj11 jack. Recently, I was called my a national chain to go correct a problem with an extension that didn't work after their regular installer completed the job and left town. The problem - the extension was wired with a rj45 jack and the rj11 plug would not make a consistent connection. Replaced jack with a standard rj11 and all was well.

Bill

What's an RJ11 or an RJ45?

There was never an RJ22, so if any of you have seen that terminology, it's just something that a manufacturer made up.

Look in the back of any jack manufacturer's catalog, especially an older one. Hubbell, Suttle, Ortronics and Leviton had a good series of RJ illustrations. You will see a series of wiring diagrams, with many different RJ patterns using the exact same jack hardware. The jack is the same, it's how they are wired is what makes them different.

RJ has nothing to do with the physical size, shape or number of pins in the jack! RJ simply is a series of wiring diagrams (pin assignments) so the phone company understands how you want your jacks configured.

I think I am pissing up a rope here trying to get our industry's terminology put back in line!

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Ed
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How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

[This message has been edited by ev607797 (edited August 18, 2005).]

Below are some sites that give info on "Registered Jacks"

https://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/data/cables/RJ_types.html

https://www.arcelect.com/RJ_Jack_Glossary.htm

https://www.answers.com/topic/registered-jack

RJ22 by the way is the handset plug/jack


[This message has been edited by paulw (edited August 18, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by paulw (edited August 18, 2005).]

PaulW:

One of the very links you provided in your posts contradicts your statement about RJ22. I have included it here:

https://www.arcelect.com/RJ_Jack_Glossary.htm

NO handset connectors have an RJ designation, nor did they ever. Every manufacturer's electronic components in handsets are different. There are polarity issues, carbon/electeret transmitters, etc. There simply cannot be a uniform standard for handset connections. If there were, then we should be able to use any manufacturer's handset on any phone. You and I both know that this is not the case.

How about "dial-in-handset" phones where the CO line actually is the ONLY circuit active in the handset cord? How about AT&T Trimline (recent models) where the CO line enters the handset, but ringer control returns to the base via a third conductor?

RJ is a TELEPHONE COMPANY NETWORK connection term, developed by AT&T. An "RJ" is a connection to the telephone company's facilities. Any reference to RJ beyond the telephone company's network interface (typically RJ11C, RJ14C or RJ21X in the United States), or a jack on the wall is fiction.

In most cases, the RJ misnomer is just a matter of simplicity. One looks at a single-line modular jack as an "RJ11", therefore, any jack that resembles it is also an RJ11. Handset cords and jacks have always been a "guess an RJ" because a handset cord RJ never existed and cannot.

Bear in mind that you can wire an 8 position, 8 conductor ("RJ45") jack as an RJ11C by connecting Tip and Ring of a CO LINE to pins 5 and 4, respectively. Connecting a station port to these same pins is not a registered jack (RJ) because it's not a connection to the public switched network. Anything behind a PBX or key system is no longer an RJ. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong here.


You can wire an 8P8C jack for just about any RJ configuration from RJ11 all the way up to 61, except those in the 30's, 40's and of course, the RJ21X. RJ IS NOT A PART, IT IS A STANDARD WIRING PATTERN!

I am surprised that the term Tip and Ring have not been renamed by newcomers to our industry. I guess that's next.

Look, folks...I am not trying to be a pain but please, if you are going to participate in this industry, know what you are talking about. I don't claim to know everything, but in this case, I do.

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Ed
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How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

Agreed that it is a contradition. However after I posted the links I did a search for RJ22 and found lots of links. One is below.

https://www.twstore.com/rj22.html

Paul:

Again, I will state that the term "RJ" is grossly and improperly over used in our industry. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck. Not true with registered jack designations.

This link is just another manufacturer or distributor that has given a 4P4C plug a name other that what I have just stated. 4P4C is the only true designation for this plug/cord/jack. There is no RJ designation for it.

I hate to sound like an old-school pr&%k about this stuff, but I am correct here. Just because newbies or manufacturers/distributors need an easy name for a plug doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

Handset cords/jacks cannot have an "RJ" designation. An RJ22 is nothing close to a handset cord; it's a network jack (25 pair block) with CO lines and A/A1 leads.

There is no RJ designation for any plug/jack that doesn't connect directly to the public telephone network. Once a cord leaves the phone or PBX/key system for that matter, there is no longer an industry standard.

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Ed
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How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

Ed is right here. It is far too easy for a manufacturer to slap a name on a product that is misleading in some way. Roughly six years ago (when CAT 5 was the GOOD network cable) AVAYA's cable plants started cranking out a cable that they refered to as Category 7. Nevermind the fact that the standards bodies were not close to adopting CAT 6 yet. Doesn't CAT 7 just sound like a higher performance cable? And hey, it doesn't even have to meet ANY specs.

The point is that just because a manufacturer chooses to call something by a particular name, doesn't mean that it aligns with an established STANDARD.


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BCM Guy
www.BCMguy.com
Learn more about the Nortel Networks Business Communications Manager HERE !

The "RJ22" was probably picked out by an Asian manufacturing company as a way to import the handset plugs.

Anyway back to the original posters question, We never install any 8 Pin 8 conductor jacks for any telephone system that uses the 6 pin 4/6 conductor plugs!

I have gone behind one too many IT nerds that want to use the 8 Pin 8 Conductor Cat-5,E,or whatever the latest trend is this month jack and show them by wiggling the cord and watching the phone just go nuts that we will not do it and if they still won't go along, I have a disclaimer letter saying that we are not responsible.


DJ

Just currious, is there a good online reference that shows wiring diagrams for these?


Corwyn

I think www.suttleonline.com has some of the RJ configurations available. They were there the last time I checked a few months ago, but you know how it is. They may just cave to the IT guys and change the whole jack manufacturing industry into a Microsoft product.