atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information The Shift to Data has already occurred.....

I think you pretty much summed up the aggregate opinion of this board.

-Hal

The one big hurdle I have seen from the data community is the level of support they expect to give and have be acceptable.

I sold an asterisk system for a client because it seemed like the best thing for them as far as bells and whistles for the money. That is, if it works and is put in correctly.

The guys doing the work were newbies, and we all paid the price with an unhappy customer while they "cut their teeth" on the new technology.

What I have found maddening is their idea of "quick response". In the legacy telephone world, if a client is down, I'M ON IT! NOW!

In the IT world, 4-8 hours is acceptable to them, if they are not too busy. That doesn't fly too well in the voice world, so they will have to adjust their thinking from data to voice. I don't care to denigrate them as some do here, but they need to take on some additional "voice" skills, just as us telecom guys need to take on some "data" skills.

It is my feeling that the companies that will succeed in the future will be the ones that will have expertise in both. Our company just recently hired some data gurus to compliment our services. Best move we ever made.

Sounds like that move won't be required for several years in smaller markets though from what I see here.

I think that the size of the organization has a lot to do with this. I work for a medium growing to large corporation (~6000 employees world-wide) which gives me a totally different perspective than people serving small businesses.

In my company the Telecommunications group is already part of Information Technology (IT) and the group is probably going to get a new name of Network Communications to better reflect what they handle: MPLS circuits, voice circuits (PRI + POTS), home office circuits (cable or DSL), cell phones, conference bridge administration, call center administration, and phone system + voice mail administration. This group uses the same help desk system as the rest of IT, but with a radically different Service Level Agreement (SLA) to make certain that voice problems are prioritized properly.

In an organization of this size, it doesn't seem reasonable to make a blanket statement like, "To have nothing but IP phones through out the office would be cost foolish." Our new IP phones save us a ton of time with MAC work compared to our old Nortel digital phones. Our organization is very standards-based and so we want everything to be the same. We are using our MPLS network to call from site to site around the globe with dramatically lower cost than we did in the past. We moved to the new technology because it benefits our organization, not because we wanted bleeding-edge technology to tout.

In our corporate environment the shift to data HAS already occurred as the OP stated. Smaller companies will move this way as they grow in size or as the technology becomes more robust and cost-effective. There was a time when only big companies could afford a PBX with voice mail in-house. Now even mom-and-pop shops have this technology. The change didn't happen overnight. I think it is reasonable to expect the same type of progression regarding the move to data. If I were serving small to medium sized customers I would prepare for the change rather than deny it.

-Rob

Hal,

There is a IP based system that can be programed just as easy as a TDM system. It is called ShoreTel.

There is a IP based system that can be programed just as easy as a TDM system. It is called ShoreTel.

If that's true why don't the mainstream manufacturers design their systems the same way? I'll tell you why, it's because the manufacturers are in bed with the IT industry. The IT industry has the $$$, they have the clout and they have the influence.

Problem is the traditional telcom industry has been taken for granted all these years because we operate in the background with little if any fanfare. How many telecom magazines with ads for the latest offerings from Avaya, Vodavi, ESI, etc. have you ever seen? Compare that with litterly tons of IT publications, many available at newsstands.

In a few words we are doomed because of our apathy. We have no industry group that would push manufacturers for the design of new VoIP systems to emulate the proven programming interface of the previous TDM systems or their packaging.

So now we have systems that require programming code and are packaged like other computer hardware. VoIP is just another method to move voice from one phone to another. Systems that use it didn't have to be designed from the ground up to be a piece of computer hardware, they could have just as easily been an upgrade to existing TDM systems. But we let it happen, the IT industry made their demands. THEY wanted something that THEIR people could understand, something that THEY were used to working with. The manufacturers listened and this is it.

Problem too is the IT industry operates much like the legal profession. Laws are written by lawyers so only lawyers will understand them. The IT industry creates much of it's software and hardware so only they will understand it.

Sure, that's not to say that we can't learn something new but what good will it do us when every CG is selling a telecom solution and people forget us and begin to consider them as well as Dell, Microsoft, Crisco, CDW, etc. the places to purchase their telcom solutions?

Yup, I really gotta get out of this business.

-Hal

Well Hal, I just don't see the extinction of traditional telecom types happening any time soon. As an IT guy who's learning the telecom side, I'll tell you what you already know, though from my point of view. While the delivery method of voice to an end user may change, there's so much more that needs to be considered when installing a communications infrastructure that I don't see most IT types having the knowledge (or time) to do the job properly. Heck, I'd bet that most of us probably didn't even want that job to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I am interested in learning new technologies and find this very interesting, but I still have a full-time job in networking/systems admin to worry about.

I, for one, will be enlisting the services of a good installer that knows telecom, whether I look at a new VoIP system or TDM.

I do think you are correct in that the manufacturers should leverage their existing technology and best practices when designing new equipment. Seems to make perfect sense to me. Sounds like the Cisco's of the world are reinventing the wheel when it comes to telecom (though they make some pretty bulletproof routers and switches in my experience). And, yes, Microsoft now offers its "Office Communications Server 2007" to work with PBXs/VoIP. Yikes.

Great post Rob. I agree that it always starts at the top and works its way down. If you want to see what the "little guys" will be marketing in five years, just look at what fortune 500 is up to. My experience working on larger accounts tells me the shift has already occurred, and the companies that DON'T want IP are not educated enough on it.

IP done right works fine, but there are a few more hurdles and skill sets that have to be in place. It is no longer bleeding edge, but cutting edge.

I can handle that.

...we [can] learn something new but what good will it do us when every CG is selling a telecom solution and people forget us and begin to consider them.

Since I posted that statement a few days ago I heard from two old established customers. Both have strong relationships with outside CGs.

The first customer, a small prep school, was moving and now wanted phones in each new classroom. Right off when they called me they were kind of evasive about the project, they wouldn't give too many details even after I offered to look at the site or even just the plans. Because of that I told them that I couldn't quote anything other than the cost of the additional phones (I recommended 2500 type sets for the classrooms) and the cost of the mods to upgrade their 3 year old Partner system. That wasn’t a lot of money but naturally I couldn’t give them a price to move the system or install the wiring and phones without seeing the project. I was told their sparkie would be doing the wiring and that there are two buildings with underground conduit being run between them. Ok, so I wrote up what I could quote and included that the premises wiring would have to be installed under our supervision and the underground cable would have to be installed by us because of the required protectors and to insure that it is of the proper type. But again I had no idea what was involved.

Second customer is also a move; new building is being built which is about 50% completed. I’m at their existing office a few times a year to do MACs and not one word about the new building even after I drop the hint- how is it going? I was there last week to make changes to their Partner Messaging. The office manager is discussing the changes she would like made with another girl at which time the girl slips and says “this is only until we move into the new building, right?”

So what happens? First customer calls to thank me but they have decided to go with VoIP. It will save them $14,000 because they won’t have to run a cable between the buildings. How do they know what the cable will cost?? The second customer I’m sure will go VoIP also.

None of this really bothers me EXCEPT why didn’t they consider asking us about a VoIP solution. I’ll tell you why- it’s because they think VoIP is something that is to be provided by an IT company.

-Hal

I live in a small town in Alberta. In the past 6 months to a year I have had a lot of small busniness wanting to know if VOIP is a good idea for them. My response has always been NO. I don't fully understand VOIP, but what I do is that if you have a multi branch business that it is good, for inter branch calling. In Canada the long distance rates are CHEAP, compared to years ago.
There is only one case when it is going to save money. This customer is moving into the country and the telco is going to charge $6K per line to install. With a wireless IP it will be a saving.
The other thing that I say is if your network goes down you are done no phone calls in and out.
The final decision is up to the customer most stay with with what they have. That is my 2 cents worth. I am sure that there are other advantages or not.

Seriously? If you are as excited about VoIP with your customers as you are here I wouldn't expect anyone at any point to ever ask you about VoIP.

Some of you guys sound like the telephone operators after direct dial was invented.