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Originally posted by KDL “IT might know how to manage a network but not a system cut-over.”

I couldn’t agree more. I saw it 1st hand. No testing. No communication with the users. The mindset was “Whatever is in the computer must be right and I bought the system so I know what the end user needs.” Unfortunately neither are true. Could be that "knowledge arrogance" that KDL mentioned.


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Nothing is more satisfying than watching a customer get punished by showing their disloyalty by dumping your great service over the years for the promise of a super "IP phone system". Like Cisco. In every case so far the company has been miserable with their decision. One account we lost downtown - a large auto dealer - bought Cisco and the installing firm never has got it right. When you call them at night it answers with 'Thank you for calling' about 30x times then hangs up. Guess they got their 140k worth LOL. Their old Samsung key system at least worked right.

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I think what it is more than anything is a skill set the IT guy simply doesn't have for the most part. They, the IT guy, thinks that if they get enough manuals and can herd someone on the phone for days at a time they can do it. Unfortunately these same IT guys, whoafully undertrained for even an IT position, are put in charge of everything electronic because most of the bean counters and decision makers haven't a clue about computers or phones.

The question I would ask business owners is WHY you would entrust your business, and I mean critical business decisions, to a person that can barely balance a check book and you probably only pay minimum wage to.

See, I actually went to college for IT...well actually programming but I have been using and working on code and computers for quite some time. It amazes me how many times that "I" the phone vendor gets called in to fix stupid level zero and one issues with someones network which isn't even my business.

Until the computer sector gets their collective heads outa their asses and demands these people get properly trained for even IT jobs (not simply MS certs...quite a joke IMHO) but REAL training so they can actually manage and fix network issues...VOIP simply will never work properly on a large scale.

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Here! Here! Coral, you have a deep understanding of the IT world and the "Real" world.

Local college, teaches IT, calls, IT guy having problem with wireless points on the network. Wants to add "that blue wire" so that they can add another POE unit to "add more power to the network to make it work better". OKAY?!?

Hey, it is time and material, fourth floor. Old brick 4 story buildings. Brick interior walls. Look the job over. "Do you really need this here?" "No." "Okay, we'll get started." We added 30' of cable, turned the wireless point to extend down the hall, not at the wall. Signal great now. Ran 70' from the closet through a wall and placed the new wireless point where it covered the other hall. Great signal. No need for a new POE injector. Just place the equipment properly. IT guy thinks we walk on water. No, common sense says radio doesn't work through brick walls, signals travel down halls.

IT is in charge of phone and IT and has six people, yet no one could figure out the basics. My associate looked, figured it out in minutes, and we fixed it right then and there.....

Oh, well, it pays the bills. laugh


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And when it's hard to refrain from laughing out loud, just remember,1 way or another, you're paying the guy's salary. Or, someone just like him, somewhere! frown I'm sorry, I probably ruined everyones' Sunday. John C. (Not Garand)


When I was young, I was Liberal. As I aged and wised up, I became Conservative. Now that I'm old, I have settled on Curmudgeon.
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I work with a bunch of IT guys now because cables and wires and that dreaded slate/white pair scares them. Evidently i'm also the resident VoIP expert which is scary because suppositively one of the guys is a CCNE. I guess VoIP ethernet packets are a completely different beast then any other RDP ethernet packet. We had a nice discussion at length about why QoS is important.

I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of these pedigree's (certificates) are nothing more then a way to certify false confidence and incompetence. Atleast on the M$ side of things with is 80% of everything you will deal with.

Atleast on the Linux and OpenSource side of things the competency level usually goes way up. Chances are they still will be mystified by that white/slate pair tho.

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Kumba, sounds like you may be able to write your own ticket for life. I'm jealous! frown John C. (Not Garand)


When I was young, I was Liberal. As I aged and wised up, I became Conservative. Now that I'm old, I have settled on Curmudgeon.
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Atleast until the next snake oil salesman roles into town.

But any business has it's lesser desirables. The IT side just seems to have more certificates then qualifications it seems.

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I am seeing a pattern of voice techs being very wary of learning data, and vice versa.

I think it will take some time to have the workforce move with the changes. Data guys seem better equipped to troubleshoot IP systems right now. I wouldn't put in an IP system without a data guy available. There are just way too many things that can go wrong on a data network to affect voice quality.

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Quote
Originally posted by Telephone Guru:
I am seeing a pattern of voice techs being very wary of learning data, and vice versa.

I think it will take some time to have the workforce move with the changes. Data guys seem better equipped to troubleshoot IP systems right now. I wouldn't put in an IP system without a data guy available. There are just way too many things that can go wrong on a data network to affect voice quality.
I agree, but MOST IT guys hold certs on windows...and thats it. Topology and IP networking are beyond them...totally. Start talking about VLANS and QoS and you start to see their eyes gloss over. Start talking about NAT tranversal issues the same. VOIP is a great buzzword, and IF the network is setup properly WITH the proper (non-mixed) equipment it will serve you well. The problem is MOST networks aren't even close to being ready for it...the problem is they don't percieve the problem cause "internet exploder" is working just fine and dandy.

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