atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Panasonic Telephones & Systems Panasonic VB 43050 compatible

yes how are you supposed to help them when
you clearly don't know a thing about what we do??

PM sent.

Take it easy guys! First of all, they are not a customer, they are my employer, and they want me to do some research to find out how reasonable the quotes we get are. If I buy a car, I should be able to change the oil, change a tire, tune the engine, etc, as well as be able to drive it. And I should know enough to determine whether I need a 4WD with 6000LB towing capacity to drive 1 mile on flat paved streets in SoCal (no snow) to buy groceries or not.

Second of all, the quote we have included labor. If my employer bought the equipment and paid the company who gave us the quote the same amount of labor to install it, we'd save $5K.

Third, this is a small non-profit school we're talking about, not some $100M/yr corporation, so every little bit helps. $5K can buy a lot of stuff for a school, including some up-to-date classroom computers (instead of old donated computers running Win95), new books and other educational materials.

Finally, while what you do does require some training, it is not impossible for someone else to learn it well enough to discuss it intelligently in order to make sound purchasing decisions. I'm a computer programmer with 30+ yrs of experience, and I have installed home phones, and I've seen some really schlock installations by phone companies (worst was a 1/2" thick cable for a 5-line phone run right down the center of an office wall, completely ignoring the cable that was already in the wall when the building was constructed).

Having said all that, I do appreciate the advice given so far -- keep it coming!

installing a phone in your house and putzing
with computers for 30 years hardly makes you the right guy to be a consultant for a school for special needs or for that matter a any school
you may want to just tell tell your boss that you
do not know enough about this stuff to speak intelligently because I know plenty of CG's
that cant even pin out a data jack properly
much less install a mdf in a phone room

Yes, I have informed my boss I don't know anything about installing phone systems.

Yes, I understand companies have to make money by marking up the equipment. I also understand they buy wholesale; my example was retail, and I included the labor costs. I was at a car dealership where the stickers were MSRP + $2000. The car dealer has to make a living too, right? Would you buy from him?

When offering advice, it pays to be a little more diplomatic. I've put connectors on coax, RJ11 and RJ45 cables with no problems (in spite of having some red-green color blindness). I've built computers from parts. The phone equipment we're discussing is basically a computer, controlled by software. I have an understanding of what phone systems are supposed to do and how they do; what I do not have is knowledge of all the acronyms in use, and some of the features.

Customers deserve to understand what they're buying -- what are those labor costs for? What does the equipment do?

All we're talking about doing is replacing the cabinet and the phones. What does that realistically entail? Replacing the mdf? Repulling the cables? Installing new 120vac outlets? Getting new phone lines from tpc?

Btw, County wide, thanks for the tip on Newton's book -- I've got it on order at Amazon.

And Rich30529, no they don't have fast pcs, only some of them are on the latest Windows version, I just recently replaced their 10mbs hub with a 1gbs switch, but so far the fastest nic in a pc is 100mbs. In the interests of being more environmentally friendly we're in the process of replacing half a dozen printers (ink & laser) with a central multi-function copier/printer (parents keep donating cheap ink printers that cost a fortune in cartridges to keep running).

not replaceing mdf but cutting down a new frame
for the pbx .blocks do fade and corrode with
time thats why bix, krone, and 110/210 are so much better no exposed contacts much cleaner
install and if you have the room on the new
pbx frame and the old cables reach why not cut them down on new rails??

Well this post goes on and on so to answer the question at hand.

You have a Panasonic system so changing it out for another Panasonic kit would not take all that long any good Panasonic installer will have a new MDF in place in 2-3 hours there would not be any changes to the cable or floor sockets these would remain as is on any system as most systems now only require a single pair of wires to run a phone if you already have a DBS phone in place no extra cable is required to change the handset
If all rooms are already cabled allow same amount of time to unpack and install new handsets.
To train the users 2 hours
So in effect it should take no more than 1 days labour to complete the job
As for you doing it yourself!!! Your dreaming... anyway all installers are Panasonic approved, tested, and has a cert for each type of system they work on. During training the student must know all the terminology used by the instructors as they won’t stop to explain... your Comment (in spite of having some red-green colour blindness) making up an MDF would certainly cause you problems don’t you think as you would not only be dealing with red and black cables.
To end
In order to fit a phone system properly you must know what you’re doing if a problem arises you have to know where to look for the remedy this doesn’t come from books it comes from years of fault finding experience. Starting small while in training, eventually working up to answering questions online for the people who don’t know how.


Peter (www.novacomms.net)

Peter Doyle,
Your wiring information is not entirely correct. True most of today's phone systems work off of a single pair and consequently, a lot of installers are wiring just a single pair to the jack. The Panasonic TDA digital phones work off a single pair, but a different pair than the DBS phones. Many times I find myself having to rewire every single jack simply because a previous installer was too lazy to connect at least two pairs.

if you are going to do a new system you may want to repin all the jacks if they look crusty.

Kevhawk13
your Comment:Peter Doyle,
Your wiring information is not entirely correct. True most of today's phone systems work off of a single pair and consequently, a lot of installers are wiring just a single pair to the jack. The Panasonic TDA digital phones work off a single pair, but a different pair than the DBS

maby this is a country issue But here goes:

in ireland all DBS systems require 2 pairs to run. Annalogue and Digital. if the handset is curently working the digi pair is intact.so its just a case to locate that digi pair at the system side. i have installed and replaced many a DBS system with kxtd and TDA and never had to rewire the wall side (unless asked too) now as i said earlier it may be a country issue and maby your DBS system doesnt use a digital pair to run or maby your TDA doesnt cable out on the same pair as ours and if so i appoligse for the mis info.

peter