atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Vodavi Telephones & Systems cannot get new station to work!

Thanks guys. I will retrace then.

The company that originally installed all of this did in my opinion an awful job. unfortunately this station is the 2nd to last station at the end of 7 seperate, but wired buildings. I have to go to each one and test, so it is very tedious.

Well, here is an update. i am able to get the station punched down through 5 punch downs.

as soon as I plug any other pairs into the next block it dies. i am so confused. i know that the pair i'm using now black and orange are not used by any other stations, but as soon as i get that pair down it dies.

if i punch down just one wire the orange, on one pin, it goes bonkers. i'm ready to quit, and seriously call the professionals, but at the same time i can't just 'give up'.

You mentioned multiple buildings. The fact that there are so many cross connect points is already pointing to improper design to begin with. Any more than two cross connect points is not proper design.

I have to ask, did this extension ever work properly? If so, has it always worked since day one or was it recently added?

I am starting to suspect that you may be pushing the distance limits of digital station ports on this system. I believe that the maximum is 750 feet, but adding so many cross-connect points effectively reduces this by about five percent per point.

Another thing you may need to consider is that you may have a defective cable pair on a segment of route to your station. These phones will operate marginally with three of four conductors operational. A true test will be to utilize completely different cable pairs in an attempt to restore the station. Better yet, maybe you can take the phone and temporarily connect it along the way at each cross-connect point to see where the faulty pair is. The first point where the phone stops working will show you the cable section that has failed.

Is this something worth further investigation? It is really starting to sound like a distance limitation that was already being pressed to begin with.

Try to get us some details on the overall design of the facility. Maybe we can give you a few suggestions on getting things corrected. You mentioned that you suspect that the installing company did an awful job and I am starting to agree with you. Based upon the fact that there are so many cross connect points alone pretty much proves that the system and it's wiring wasn't installed professionally.

No phone system, regardless of the brand or vintage should be installed in an environment such as what you have described. You need to spend money on correcting shoddy wiring, not on the phone system. Phone system wiring is not a "connect the dots" puzzle like the inexperienced seem to find appropriate.

Ed, Promise me you'll have a seat before you read the rest of this post!

We have 7 buildings the wiring goes through. The distance from the two farthest points has got to be at least 2,000 feet. The distance between at least two of them is too far for a Network Data signal to travel over Cat5 cable.

Did this station ever work? Answer: Technically no, this station was never wired. A new employee was brought in, and she needs a phone in her office. Unfortunately her office is in the *farthest* building away from the KSU. There were originally two stations in this farthest building 118 & 116. 116 is still there and working. 118 I moved to a new building that was built this past year, and it too is working.

What I have been doing is taking the phone with me as I go from cross connect point to the next.

I am going to put pictures here:

First, the KSU is here in a cabinet (this is the right side of the cabinet. Those 3 blocks you see are the stations each block has 8 stations going through them. you can can see some of the labelling of the station # pairs:

https://gallery.iametarq.com/photos/2006/spring/misc/IMG_4575.JPG

From the above picture the wiring all goes to here:

https://gallery.iametarq.com/photos/2006/spring/misc/IMG_4576.JPG

The lock on the lower right in this picture contains the wiring that then exits this building. Those Yellow and Black blocks, what are they? I have no idea, but they have DC Voltage Ratings on them. I am guessing they are regulators to prevent surges, but I don't know.

Now we come outside to the pedistool:

https://gallery.iametarq.com/photos/2006/spring/misc/IMG_4577.JPG

at this point, on the top cross connect, the station 115 i am trying to get to work, DOES work. Beyond this point, and no matter what pair i seem to use, it will not work at the next cross connect point. in fact, if i try to connect pairs with alligator clips OR punch them down to the connection points, like i'd like to, the station quits.

at this point I feel there is no point in me going any farther and they will need to call the people that installed the system.

I do the upkeep of the Data network and the computers on site. At the time we trenched and buried twin runs of Cat5 to all the buildings the 50 pair voice line was also run. The Data network works great, and that's what I'm familiar with. Before the digital phone system came in, I also did the analog phone lines, which were never a problem.

I don't believe that the phone system is at fault (minus station/port 117, which didn't work when I plugged the phone directly in to it) I blame the person who connect the wires to all the cross connects.

Thanks for your help, Ed.

Ed, seems like i read about a digital loop extender to extend the station which required a stand alone power supply for the digital station.
This was a vodavi product, or am i just dreaming it.? I would tie a short on a few vacant pairs, use my ohm meter and read the loop first, check loop limitations on system, and go from there.
Agree not a system problem but a Installation problem.
Lack of experience can sure get a guy in trouble.

usererror, you are fighting an uphill battle. You are trying to force the telephone system to do something it is not designed to do,such as push a signal over long ranges that exceed the capabilities of the hardware. Treat it the same way you do data lines.

TexasTechnician, perhaps then the system can only push signal for two stations, as far as it has, and the third is a lost cause!

I can honestly say that I have never seen such a pitiful installation in my life. I am not joking. Who in the world would install an indoor protected entrance terminal (and I use that term loosely with those punch-down toys) inside of a pedestal? Why is it that people think that they can just throw whatever is easy for them to purchase and call it an installation? I am really glad I was sitting down. Thank you for the warning there, Usererror. You really do have a mess on your hands.

TJ, yes they do have a loop extender unit but I wouldn't invest in any more harware until that wiring situation is done properly.

66 block terminations installed in outdoor installations have not been acceptable since the 1960's!
I thought the first picture of the KSU was bad enough, but that pedestal picture takes the cake. It almost classifies as "hall of shame" material.

You can't tell me that a professional telephone company performed this installation. It had to have been done by a novice.

You need to find a REAL outside plant contractor to perform the wiring to the outbuildings properly. That pedestal picture clearly shows that the installer had absoultely no clue what they were doing. Get on it now before you end up buying a new system the hard way.

Great pics. My head hurts now!!!

LOL Maybe. But until this mess is cleaned up you will have nothing but headaches and blame unless you run away from it as fast as you can.