atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems IP Office - PARTNER Version

Think of your travel stop (3 lines 4 phones and overhead paging). They have a couple thousand to spend.

The Partner Version would be close to that number with a decent profit for you. As for the SOE, I don't know what the sales numbers on it were but I don't think they were very good. I do know that we never sold any.

I think your whole problem is with the part about "they have a couple of thousand to spend". Customers rarely have a conception of what anything like this costs and just pull a number out of a hat. If you are going to look for something to sell to meet their number instead of them meeting your number you are not doing either of you any good. They get junk and you get beaten down.

-Hal

Hal
New York has bigger richer customers I guess. About 40-50% of our installs were SOE packages. It was designed for the 4-6 phone market. Their conception of what a phone system in this market should cost was given to them many times by the price shown on our competitors bid. We had to be in that ball park most of the time. We could be more, but not that much more regardless of the best sales techniques, cost justification, etc. Lets avoid a discussion about sales techniques.. the bottom line is that in our market and with the 4-6 phone customer many times the product offerings become a bit commoditized and brand a looks similiar in their mids to brand b and c (even though there could be huge differences) and so all three brands, in the customer minds, should cost about the same and if they are a bunch higher they get thrown out regardless of how good they are.
All I am saying is that the Version needs to compete with the other brands in the 4-6 set market place to be a good offering for those of us out in the rural markets. Give us an SOE type offering please!

The two times Avaya tried what you suggest (the Endeavor and the ACS SOE) they were big flops. Without knowing who your competitors are, what they are doing and what you pay I can't say why there would be such a huge difference (50%) in pricing. Right now the IPO Partner Version is priced much less than an old ACS system with the same features so it's right there with other comparable manufacturers. I have a feeling that your customers have been looking a Yugos and you are showing them Ford.

-Hal

I agree with others that the biggest shortcoming with the IPO Partner version is the limited number of Partner phones that can be supported. I understand the logistics around creating an expansion mod for these phones. The trouble is that we have a great "evergreen" path for small Partner systems, but not larger ones. And mixing/matching phones on one system can cause needless heartache.
Mike

mixing/matching phones on one system can cause needless heartache

I guess this is another one of those "damned if you do or damned if you don't" situations. Try to do something to help a customer and you get screwed. Problem with customers today is that if you give them a hand they want the whole arm and a leg too. I wouldn't be surprised if the friction and negative feelings caused by not being able to reuse all of a customers' old ETR Partner phones loses more sales than if that never was an option and the customer had no choice but to replace all the phones as part of the upgrade. Then it becomes something they need and they will have to resign themselves to it if they want a new system, not have the thought always in the back of their mind- why should I bother, our old phones work fine and how much money can we save.

I do understand the thought that it can sometimes give us a foot in the door for existing customers, but reusing old phones with the IP Office Partner Version is like putting a new engine in a 15 year old clunker. Nothing has really changed as far as anyone can see, he can't take advantage of many of the new features so he isn't getting all his money's worth.

-Hal

Ok, I have a few things to add to this. I am a big fan of linux and asterisk, and Avaya. Asterisk is free but the hardware is not. When it boils down to it, it will cost the same or close to Avaya equipment depending on what the person wants. Also there are way more people that know avaya equipment than Asterisk/Digium. Just because the application is free doesnt mean it is a "free" pbx. Now on to my IPOPE rant! Avaya if you are really listening.......

Why cant an analog station have Automatic line selection??? Ohhh but the ETR cards do it. Yeah I want to sell my customer an ETR card so their fax machine can get automatic line selection and have calls ring the fax station. When the customer wants the 1416 phones.

Also why does the AutoAttendant not cover the weekends?????? Come on thats just dumb! I could care less that there is a stupid morning,afternoon,evening greeting.

Why is it that when I install a system I have to format the SD card and reinstall the system files just so the freaking thing will back up to it, otherwise when it reboots I loose all button programming. This happens on every IPOPE install.

Another issue I have is the waiting for 2 rings for Caller ID to come in. Thats awesome make the light go red, and the person calling hears two calls, now it rings possible 2-3 times before the person picks up. The fix is to disable caller id on the trunk, stupid! Why not just let it ring through like the partner and we can tell the customers if you want to see the caller id wait for the second ring.
Dont get me wrong I love the IPO platform and going to the IPOPE is a good thing, I understand the ease of upgrading.

I agree with the Caller ID issue. The same thing happens in native IPO mode using analog trunks. Would be nice if calls would just go straight thru, and then wait the two rings for the Caller ID.

I know other systems that do this also so it's not something new. I do know that with the old Partner, if you set the AA to pick up immediately (zero rings) you will not get the CID information and that's bad, especially if you log all calls. None will be logged during night service. I've had problems with customers and this issue myself. If you need the phones to ring, say during the day with the AA picking up at zero rings for night service there is really no way around it other than I suppose delayed ringing on all extensions then have the AA pick up after one or two rings- but then you create the same situation as with the new IPO Partner.

I think this is just something you need to get used to, it really does have a purpose.

-Hal