atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems End Of The Line For The Partner ACS?

5E Mike, I like that "a solution looking for a problem" . It is very descriptive and to the point.

But then it becomes part of the problem. IP does have it's place but I don't see it in the small to mid sized business. Would the local Domino's Pizza with 4 POTS and 4 sets need an Avaya IP Office? Or the local State Farm insurance office with 3 lines and 3 sets? Or the dentist group with 8 lines and 34 sets? I doubt it. Now an access port to IP for long distance --- well, maybe. Or even to use it as a tie trunk to another site, well, maybe. But for all their needs? I'll soon find out. Carqest Auto Parts in this region is going all IP --- IF the phones are down as much as their computers are currently they'll soon be renamed "PHONEQUEST" as they'll be looking for phones that will work when their computers are down. :rofl:

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread ......

I say its a profit center. Sell the IP stuff.
When it echos. sell them echo cancellers.
Weird problems, upgrade the network.
And as thier TS will tell you, run a sep cat6 network.
Lot of add ons.

KLD - I have used the phrase "Bleeding Edge" of technology many times. Sure, many companies want to stay on the "Leading Edge" of technology, but only large companies can afford to experiment with the "Bleeding Edge".

Bill

But back to the original thought in this tread ---

I don't see the end of the Partner-type systems for some time. Even if they (Avaya/Lucent/at&t)stop producing, someone will buy the rights to produce. Look at the old Comdial stuff that King is producing new under license.

No, I don't install them, just seem to always replace them after a lightning storm. Or they just die --- after 20 years! The newest install I know of in town is 10 years old.

Very disappointed to hear that people say that the IP Office is crap. ThHe IP office is the most robust product on the market in the SMB space. The issues that come about are on the installation & programming end. I have installed over 100 of these systems, Yes R1 thru R2 it was tough, Just like any other but the product is fantastic. No other manufacturer will offer the type of applications in the voicemail, offer analog, digital, IP all from one solution. Check the Gartner report. Avaya is #1 in IP Telephony. :toast:

Yeah, well I'm very disappointed that:

1) Avaya discontinued the Magix.
2) Is even considering discontinuing the Partner.
3) Is incompetant with design of the ACS R7.
4) No longer designs and manufacturers anything.
5) Produces something like the IP Office that is supposed to replace everything even though you couldn't give it away to a small to midsize business.
6) Produces something like the IP Office that is aimed at the IT crowd so that you have to be a computer geek to make it function.

So it looks like I'm more disappointed than you are...

-Hal

I guess I am missing something here. Why wouldn't a small business have an IP office? I think there is much misinformation going on with this thread. You can install an IP office and not even use the IP part of it, install complete system with digital phones.
Paperless phones in itself is one GREAT reason to go the IP office route. Small businesses that have grown from 3-5 lines to 15 now has the option of installing a PRI or a full T1 (not half of one) without the huge cost of upgrading the entire system to a MAGIX. Partner systems are ok, but just arent flexible enough. The expandability isn't that great either. As far as pricing, almost the same after everything is said and done.
To be able to break up data circuits internally and no longer need routers, etc. Pretty much an all in one solution.
I think it is easier to program an IP office than a Magix by a long shot.
Instead of looking at it as marketing towards IT companies, look at it as marketing it towards Telco companies (that are able to grasp technology) being able to provide networking.
Guess I just see things in a positive rather than negative.

I guess I am missing something here. Why wouldn't a small business have an IP office? I think there is much misinformation going on with this thread. You can install an IP office and not even use the IP part of it, install complete system with digital phones.

You missed what I wrote on page two of this thread about 3/4 of the way down.

...It's like a guy going into a hardware store for a shovel to dig a hole and the store clerk tells him that shovels have been replaced by backhoes. He doesn't need it, he can't afford it. All he needs is a damn shovel.

Forgetting the pitfalls of IP for the moment, the basic problem is that until it costs the same or less as traditional systems, provides the same features and is as easy to administer, install and maintain there will never be a market for it in the small business sector.

Yes, I realize that you can install an IPO using digital phones and not use IP but the cost is still there- much more than a traditional system, particularly those needing only a few phones. These small system are the backbone of the industry, and I can tell you that they don't have the deep pockets that large companies and their IT departments do. That's who is falling for this stuff, not Mom and Pop.

-Hal

I sure have gotten my money's worth out of this topic. Never thought it would get to 3 pages!

Yeah, dexman, you sure did!

Each to their own, but I have customers that don't even program auto dials, have one cell phone they leave in the office, and only want the phone to ring and be answered. Heck, a digital watch is a pain. They just upgraded to a second line so they can do fax, credit card, and, oh my God, dial-up Internet to place orders and still have their main number open.

Do you think they will go the price of IPO?

Actually they looked at the ACS and said it did too much and cost too much.

IPO? I doubt it.