atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems End Of The Line For The Partner ACS?

Hal, you do a disservice to all Avaya Business Partners. The Avaya IP Office is not "crap". I've been doing this since 1992 and the Avaya IPO is simply the best platform for the small/mid-market that any company has ever sold during that time. This platform is extremely reliable (29,000 hour MTBF on the hardware), software upgradable for free from Avaya, supports TDM and IP in both extensions and trunks, provides SMTP unified messaging for free, has a 3 year warranty, ...
Avaya has given us a product that competes very well against Cisco and Nortel. With this product my company is able to do 1 to 2 (200-300 extension) deals a month. Its developed by Avaya's IPO group in the UK and manufactured in England and Ireland. Of course its supported by thousands of people like you and I with real jobs here in the US. My #1 hope is that Avaya will release a 424 version supporting 720 exensions extending the product family and giving my company another tool to win business from growing companies.

Ipanema,

I have to agree with Hal. AT&T (not the new at&t), Lucent, Avaya, all have a pedigree that used to be (being the operative term) a leader in the industry due to the historical link and the technological base that produced some of the world's most advanced and rugged equipment known to man.

The rugged dependability reminds me of the old 1A2 equipment and, at first, about the same level of features. As time went on it advanced but still retained the basics as features were added. Heck, (Off Topic) the Spirit systems were easier and quicker to sell and install. But Avaya won out with the Partners.

The IPOffice offering --- well, not many of the customer's in my area will touch it. Cost, constant maintenance, and "it just won't work". In my market most customers do not have an in house IT guy to baby sit a system.
People like to be comfortable. IP is outside their comfort zone if they don't wear a pocket protector.

Bankers, being conservative, have jumped on to the IP market due to the branch banking being tied to the main office. Data equals voice and all in one place. It also means one lost, all lost. Now they are NOT happy.

Seeing as I have hijacked this thread, it is not only Avaya that has a problem, most manufacturers' are leaning in that direction. Avaya is by far the farthest behind (or is it ahead?). Customer support of existing equipment is ridicules. Why would you wait 3-5 days to get a Partner repaired, 7-10 days to get a MAC? So the "Business Partners" are brought in to cover the Avaya short-fall. While most are good, well, it isn't the same as when the product producer, the installer, and the support were all by the same company.

Now IP is the catch phrase to make everything "OK". Wrong. Several car dealers and banks (all owned out of the local metro area) have the IP solutions. The only people happy are the IT / CGs. QoS, downtime, poor equipment (no difference in brands here).

It is easy to sell TDM equipment in my market, almost impossible to sell IP, and Avaya doesn't have a clue how to support the small market anymore. The newest Partner new install in this area is ten years old.

So, in the 40 station or less market, will IP or TDM be the winner?

Ipanema, I'm a former Bell employee and I've been doing this since 1965.

Thread back to you.

Hal, you do a disservice to all Avaya Business Partners.

No, it's just the voice of reality. I give my customers what they need, not something I can talk them into buying just because Avaya says that's what I should be selling.

It's been my observation that the few Business Partners who do well with the IPO are IT companies to begin with and/or have several times more high pressure sales people than technicians. That should tell us something.

The guy who owns a small business isn't going to be quite as gullable as the IT department of a large company with deep pockets, so your boast of 200-300 seat deals falls on deaf ears. There are many times more small business out there than large corporations.

It's quite apparent that Avaya is looking to abandon the small business market along with their dealers and customers that have been the cornerstone of their business since day one. But then you wouldn't be able to appreciate this since you have only been in this business since 1992. I have socks older than that...

-Hal

we sell the heck out of the ip office, and have not had the huge issue volume that i hear about. we had some issues in the past, but honestly most of those could be explained by lack of experience, training, pc's that do not meet the specs, etc. if you do not do a network assesment then it is your fault if it does not perform. from my experience going in after other installers/programmers of the ipo, they[customer] think it is crap, until after i leave, then they like it. i do not think i am that great to change their opinion on their investment, unless the original install was the issue, not so much the equipment. it is certainly not my good looks.

I really apprecicate being able to glean from the wisdom of you older fellas...

KLD,
I notice you sell Panasonic, NEC, and Vodavi. No Avaya?
Of the three, which sells the most? I have not sold or serviced key systems in about 10 years. Back then they were fairly comparable to each other.

Why is that the more "data" oriented a person is, the less likely they are to be able to write properly? This Text Messaging generation is killing me.

Richard

Richard,

In reply, no one telephone system or even brand has all the answers to every client. Re: We'd all be driving Fords. (Insert Chevy, Dodge, etc.)

No Avaya. I can purchase from various sources, need no certification, and "best fit" not "Best Buy" my customers. Please understand my market. It is limited. It is the small (under 40 stations), privately owned market, not chains or corporations.

Due to pricing, the Panasonic with the hybrid ports has done the best, at this point. I no longer install them except at the customer's request. The NEC has more growth, and I am just getting into Vodavi. I am a "certified" Inter-Tel Encore installer and am working on acquiring the TransTel for the hotel I hope to bid this coming summer.

Ten years ago the "key" systems were very basic and similar. Today the features are similar with just a few differences or different in "how they get there". A lot easier today in some ways. Then again, ten years ago those systems were easier than the 1A2.

Sorry to have highjacked this thread. If you have any other questions, please feel free to e-mail me.

Please understand my market. It is limited. It is the small (under 40 stations), privately owned market, not chains or corporations.

Ken, I don't think what you said is off topic at all. Some people as well as maybe Avaya need to understand what we have been preaching.

-Hal

I am not an Avaya Business Partner nor dealer--but we have many Partners out there that we maintain.
This topic interests our company alot, and the decision by Avaya to go completely in another direction is of upmost importance to us.

Has Avaya mentioned any free training for their dealers? Do they have any "special pricing" to entice the switch to the IPO?? Just wondering.

If anyone is interested in seeing the latest Partner ACS literature, here is a link:

https://www.rstelecom.net/products.htm

Publication date for all 3 brochures is 2005.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Partner Voice Messaging come in 4 & 16 mailbox versions? The Partner Messaging document lists 4 & 12 mailbox versions.

Although it can accomodate 16 mailboxes, do the math. 120 minutes total storage, divided by 16 mailboxes, gives you a grand total of 7.5 minutes of storage per mailbox. Not a lot!. So it's always been marketed as a 12 box voice mail. You can set it up for fewer boxes and gain more per box storage.

And the phone brochure shows the discontinued 9040 cordless.