atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Other TDM Phone Systems 1A2 and Comkey Telephones & Systems 1A2 and some old WECO stuff

Hi all,

Finally managed to hook up a nice 4A speakerphone set from 1976 to my 2565 desk set and a vintage 107A loudspeaker from 1973 to a 564 set. All works!

Just wanted to share with those having nostalgy from golden age of 1A2 in business communications.

This is my favourite instrument - black WE 564. Refurbished in 1983 and no original date is available since metal base was painted black (which normally happend to very old sets). Based on parts inside I may assume it comes from 1956. Wires from the network to the ringer are in fabric insulation, so also shows that it is from early production.



Plan to equip 564 station with a TT adjunct, have not connected it yet - there is no BSP for 1035 adjunct connection to 564 sets. Don't look on Cisco 7960 in the background - this is nothing in comparison with WECO stuff.



108A works well. This should be from one of the first production year of 4A speakerphone. Transmitter says 680A and loudspeaker is 108A so without static discharge protection. If by chance anybody knows parameters of "106A varistor" to install into 108A for static discharge protection (mentioned in the 'new' BSP for 4A speakerphone as shippded with each transmitter for repair), I would appreciate that for finding an available equivalent to upgrade my 108A. Hooked it up to the black WE 2565 from 1978 (refurbished in 1981).



Important - I only collect stuff that can be used. So since I've connected the 4A speakerphone over this weekend - I have already conducted today 3-4 long conference calls with it. And results are perfect. Don't know how it is for another party - but for me sound is really different from any of modern speakerphone due to more low-frequency (bass) component of sound. Most of modern IP Phones use negligible loudspeaker and the weight is way too low as well - so even if allowed, low frequencies will make the whole thing vibrating. With 108A weight and size of loudspeaker low component is possible. Difference is obvious even with 107A Spokesman.

Not without troubles - origially I connected both 4A speakerphone and 107A louspeaker to an external transformer to get 18 VAC. Both worked well for a few hours till in the evening 4A speakerphone died completely. Have had to dig inside and troubleshoot - integrated diod bridge in 108A failed. I believe this is because of transformer's starting impulse - haven't put any protection against this. So have to remove the bridge and solder AC input directly to DC output of the bridge. Of course changing the power supply for both 4A and 107A from AC to a good rectified DC source with polarity control for repaired 108A. Now hope with this modification trouble will not repeat itself. If somebody decides to repair 108A loudspeaker - be careful with flexible circuits - that was an experimental design from Bell Labs - these are not really flexible PCBs. Over time metal conductors on them start cracking and any movement may brake them with almost no chances to repair. So avoid opening it "just for curiosity".

Some of my other items from collection related to 1A2 (mostly) and WECO:

This one is newer from ITT. Came as NOS from the US. Manufacture date says April 1980. Nice Beige 564 instrument. 107A Spokesman was in awfull condition - have to repolish it completely to remove faded out plastic. Interesting enough under 0.2-0.3 mm of deteriourated plastic the colour was still like new. Only embossed WE logo on the rare side can say the difference.



This is original green Western Electric 564HL from April 1973. Was kept somewhere here in Germany and came to me with broken dial spring and contacts and lost spring in pick up buttons block. Have had to do some mechanical repair, but now it's Ok. Really like this combination of 564/565 sets with matching colour 107A loudspeakers - that was a great design. Have no use yet to 4-button external signalling keys blocks - will figure out how to employ those.



Another new set from May 1984 (almost the same age as I) also from ITT - Beige 2564.



And the Ivory ITT 2565 from November 1984. This matches perfectly with the furniture in bedroom - so I just left it there.



If you would only know how difficult (and expensive) it is to get this stuff here on the other side of the pond...

Nice work! Good for you!

Do you have the sets ringing? I seem to remember installing a T&N (Telefonbau und Normalzeit?) PAX board and the ringing was 60 hz , not the 20-30 hz we use here in the States...

A nice collection!

Sam

Hi Sam,

I use them on swiss-made PBX (Ascom) and ringers work well. Actually frequency should not be a problem - Europe uses 25 Hz ringer instead of 30 Hz in the US (half of power net frequency). But ringer voltage in the US is higher 90-110 V vs 60-75 V in Europe. This is not enough to give ringer the full amplitude. But some wood may resolve this issue: couple of matches to position the ringer coils perfectly on the metal core and it starts ringing on lower voltage. I want one day to put a KSU as well with the ringer generator for audible signalling. Then difference in voltage will not be a problem at all.

I have some vintage T&N items as well and of course some Bundes Post phones from the past. But they are not as robust as Western Electric phones.

I seem to remember some of the ITT phones set up to ring on 75 volts. I'll see if I can find any specs on them.

Sam

Hi Sam,

I would say the only real problem is with WE 2554 type sets (compact wall models). Those use a ringer with suspended steel ball, which is extremely difficult to adjust to low voltage ringing. Normal size ringers are all in principle adjustible and can work on European lines with coil positioning. I had one of the sets with both bells covered with medical plaster, because I believe original ringer was too loud for the previous owner. I have to remove remainings of plaster and adhesive and polish the bells, now they look and sound amazing.

One of the new additions on my workbench are wall-mount COMDIAL 2851 from 1985 and 2-line Stromberg-Carlson 2553 from 1982. Both in ash color and came new in the box. I believe this is from US military surplus from some of the bases here, but I may be wrong (have no better idea who would ever ship stock of new 1A2 phones to Germany and keep it for 30 years.



And one which can be interesting for all - I'm sure you've never seen it before is Ascom Crystal ISDN system telephone for Ascom PBX. Look as nothing special now in comparison with large screen IP Phones, but if you imagine that both hardware and software was developed in Switzerland in 1984 by Autophon (that was one of the biggest Swiss companies producing phones, key sets and equipment since 1920s, now dead as well as Bell System and WE), for those times - end of 1980s it was quite an advanced instrument with full size multi-line LCD screen and full computer terminal capabilities (QWERTY keyboard is integrated into the set). It took some industrial design award around the same 1989 and was successfuly produced through 1990s.
I think if you compare it with Merlin or other systems from that time, this was really unique for its time. It also works as a Key Telephone System.

Nice. I am an old 1A2 guy myself. I worked on them, and now I play with them. I worked on a 1A2 system that had approx 12,000 phones. The wiring arrangement for the 1035 dial adjunct should be the same for a 564 as it is for a 565. The internal line key is different, but the network/handset/dial connections are the same. The switchhook wires may (are) different, but comparing the BSP's for both, side by side, will allow you to see the differences. The 564 MIGHT not have the necessary transfer contact to allow the SPKRPHN to get switched on/off. I will check into that issue.

The original date can be found stamped on the side of the network.

I will see what varistor would be the proper replacement for the one called out in the BSP. You may be able to use one from the receiver unit of a G handset. I will check for you.

In return for all this exceptional kindness on my part, I would like us to stay in touch, so that when I see something interesting on www.Ebay.de (such as the afore-mentioned PAX's by T-N), I might impose upon you, at my expense of course, to accept and re-ship some items that I just can't live without.

I presently own a brand-new, old stock, T-N 15-2 PAX, and I'm looking for a 1-10 (single link, ten station) one.

Hi Arthur,

Yes, you're right - wiring is similar in 564/565 (except speakerphone). However, part of modifications required for 1035 adjunct connection in BSP involve switchook wires on network which are soldered to the network in my 564, not screwed to the terminals. So modification will require to cut them out and solder new ones instead. It's painful to touch original wiring:) I even managed to get WE 185A network needed for adjunct, however not yet really modified the set.

Regarding German eBay stuff - let me know when you need smthg. I look also for a 551C shoebox with transformer removed to make it shippable (no sense to ship a 110V transformer which is probably half of 551C weight). So will more then welcome to use this service on both sides.

And really appreciate the mysterious 106A varistor spec, if you can find it.

Wow - very cool. Some unique pieces there for sure!!

There is a "two wire" method of connecting a 1035 dial (or, in fact, any 25- or 35-type dial) to practically any common battery telephone. It is simplicity itself, if I do say so.

Connect the orange/black, blue and green wires together, and insulate the splice. Connect the Black and Red/Green wires to the handset transmitter connections on the network or at any convenient location. Insulate and store, individually, all the other dial leads. The conversion draws current from the transmitter circuit, only when a dial button is depressed. It is polarity-sensitive, so you may need to reverse the red/g and black wires to get it to oscillate.

I augmented my income during the 1980's by installing 1035 dials on the key shelves of manual switchboards (cord PBX's), equipped with rotary dials. The adjuncts fit nicely on the left side of the key shelves, and the two leads were dropped down through a small hole and fastened to the transmitter leads of the headset jack below. I put a couple of 100 ohm resistors in the leads to limitthe current getting to the dial, and "tuned for minimum smoke."

If you would like to send me a private message, please do so. The best Email address is FireAcademyFoundation@optimum.net I can provide you with a 551 KSU "shoebox" sans power supply. I would also encourage you to join C*NET, which is a world-wide private telephone network for collectors and enthusiasts. See www.CKTS.info. There are several members in Germany and other EU countries.