atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Is VoIP an attempt to steal phone tech work?

How many techs have systems in where they don't hear from a client for years and then get call for additions,upgrade,etc. If you put in new voip, you can keep up with client on a monthly basis just adding patchs,checking on gateways etc.The billable hours are incredible,the customer will treat phone system like his computer and expect downtime,our hourly rate will double.-------Our satisfaction in well done jobs will fall but what the hell were earning big bucks.Enough patchs and you have a quilt.--John

But should they HAVE to?

It's like a car that looks wicked cool, and everyone oooh's and ahhh's at it, but sometimes when you hit the brakes your windshield wipers come on, the horn honks, or the entire transmission falls out. Aw heck... it's just a little "downtime."

Stability SHOULD be a MUST.

The thing that concerns me is that, with telephone equipment manufacturers dropping TDM systems in favor of hybrid and flat out VOIP systems, small businesses are steadily losing telephone systems to choose from.

Using Avaya as an example; The Merlin Magix was retired in 2006 and the Partner ACS is slated to end in 2010. Once new Partner hardware is gone, all that will be left is refurbished. The other alternative would be to look at another manufacturer.

While a hybrid can mimic a TDM, the cost of the hardware, in many cases, puts it out of the reach of many small businesses.

so it sounds as though evolution is progressing, BUT....

But, will the infrastructure be ready, if so, when

But, will reliability be at a comfortable level

But, will end users continue to purchase patches and require fixes for the software control

But, will the equipment be superceded in weeks, months, years due to the steady progression from step 1

But, will the standard hourly charges DROP like they did for CGs? (I recall they used to be able to bill "more" than phone guys)

I guess my reluctance to embrace a new technology until it is a stable and consistent entity is my reluctance to embrace VoIP. Did you buy 8-tracks? quickly replaced by cassette, replaced by cd, soon to be replaced by mp3. By my estimate, I have bought the same "album" by Neil Young 5 times, once in each format, I am tired up temporary upgrades.

Will VoIP be a temporary upgrade until they come up with something "bigger and better"?

(hmmmmm, maybe the topic for the NEXT rant)

From where I stand, there will always be small TDM systems, but they'll be aimed at the do it yourself business owner, who will arrive as 'the phone guy' leaves, if you get my convoluted expressions. John C. (Not Garand)

As I sit here working on a pair of Motel system quotes, I'm wondering what small TDM is. Do you think I could sell them a handful of SIP phones and a box? When the guest checks in, they're handed a phone with the room number on it and.....

The phone is just a box that's required in most corporate motels. It's cheap communication to the rooms, but I can't think of the last time I used a motel room phone for anything but toll free or room calling and maybe a "free local call". Other than that, I grab my cell phone.
I also expect the quality of cell calls to be less that a real phone. If I pick up that room phone, I expect it to work 100% of the time. My Time Worthless internet service isn't that reliable, or do you suppose the "No such host" errors on my email client or my Packet8 "I can't hear you" errors is just a little "downtime?"


If I need a room built on my house, I don't go the the lumber company, buy the materials, and build it, I call a carpenter. The same with a plumber, heating contractor, or mechanic. Why would a businessman install his own phone system?

The last consumer Panasonic systems I install, I put the maintenance console on the customer's computer. Do you think they bother to make their own changes? They can barely understand CSV files, let alone edit them.

On the other side of the coin, why would I have my attorney do my bookkeeping? My services, by market, are priced about the same as an electrician and less than the CG. Yeah, I could charge more, but I like to eat. That means I pull a lot of cable at prevailing rates, and work like a CG for less than prevailing, but them's the breaks.

Carl

Up until this past weekend 9/8/, 9/9, my answer to customers asking about VoIP is the technology is not all there. Yes it works but there are flaws. Over the weekend we were told my NEC and others at an technology seminar that the problems VoIP are or were having is getting corrected at a accelerated pace. We were also told if we were not involed in IT than we better start. This was a eye opener more so than these past few years.

TDM will be around for some time yet but VoIP it is now coming faster than originaly thought.

A managed VOIP application makes sense for companies with multiple locations.

By managed I mean install a T1 or DS3 circuit to a router of some kind and have the applications managed by on-staff personel and trained IT people from the service providing company.

The problem is small companies can't afford such services (T1 loop charges alone would be enough to end any thoughts of going that route. DS3 loop charges are worse).

These companies will be forced to choose between a dwindling supply of TDM equipment or go with unmanaged VOIP service providers until the price of VOIP hardware as well as loop charges come way down.

I just don't see either of those things happening anytime soon.

if you are not involved in IT, you better "start"?
This confuses me.

15-20 years ago, the phone guys were getting all the IT business. "Hey, can you run me some network cables?" was a fairly common phrase. Most of us, I know I did, expanded to where we took on some of the IT stuff. Maybe not placing PC's on desks, but hubs, switches, routers, etc all were part of the cable infrastructure that made up the phone guy's side of IT.

As Y2K sucked all the dollars out of IT at the tail end of the 20th century, and it was apparent the dollars would not be back for a few years, the smart guys did not accept working for lower wages and continued to provide QUALITY telephone service and installation and our wages have continued to climb.

IT techs, network techs, and lotsa computer guys all accept the market has changed, and the $60-100K yr jobs slowly have migrated down to $20-50K. The years of experience are slowly dwindling to techs that can get the job done, but have no real base for theory and practice of how the compnents interact and communicate. They are not techs, they are parts changers.

This thread has been lively, and I do enjoy the many voices and opinions.

Phone Guys rule, computer techs are unix!

I remember installing my first ARC net Cable job or converting An IBM coax system over to 4 pr. in 500,000 ft new plant, and how about installing thinnet coax before those. I also remember sweating over the bids and holding my breath untill all the green lights came on. Franks right about phone guys and IT type cable,hub,switch and router work.