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90% of so called Voip Systems are still getting their Trunks via a T1 or PRI using TDM, the customer thinks they have voip but in truth its just voip from the handset to the phone system.


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So Avalon, are you saying VOIP will be better or worse when it's VOIP end-to-end? Or is it the old "time will tell"? John C. (Not Garand)


When I was young, I was Liberal. As I aged and wised up, I became Conservative. Now that I'm old, I have settled on Curmudgeon.
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To refere to the original poster's question, is VOIP an attempt to take away the work of the phone guy? Well, computer guys are always looking to change the way something is done and this is no different. I don't think computer guys are intentionally trying to be phone men, but they feel there is another way to do what we're doing and make a big chunk of a huge market. We telecom professionals have to accept that the times they are a-changin' and (at the very least) become knowledgeable on anything taking place in our industry. I feel it is my job to evaluate what's out there, determine whether or not it's useful, and discard what is not applicable. We have to take the role of educators for the client and show them how they can get the most out of the available technology. It's not much different from the process we use to determine which systems we will be offering to the public. There will be 25 different opinions whether the product we carry is better than Joe the phone man's product and we have to be prepared to present our case.
VOIP is here to stay, so we have to show the customer where it fits and where it doesn't. Winning the trust of the client and proving our technical proficiency and ability to think outside of the box, is really what we do anyway.

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VoIP? Computer guys wanting to be telephone men? Not hardly, I started in telecom back in the early 80's and about that time, “telephone people” were trying to connect computers together with data adapters connected to the phone sets. Well, we all know that didn't work out to well. I decided in the 90's to migrate over to the networking side (computers/switches & routers) because I could see the "writing on the wall". Voice will move over to more of a computer networking environment, it's just not going to happen as fast as some people would like. What I have found out in the past is, most "computer" people don't know “ditties” about voice or anything about the industry and they are many times "dumbfounded" by telecommunications. Although small KSU’s and PBX's may resist the migration to a VoIP platform for a bit longer, anyone who wants to continue to work on telecommunications equipment (KSU and PBX level) will need to adapt to the changing industry. If not, then I fear your only options will be to support equipment that will one day eventually fail or move on to another profession. Key in mind when we changed from 1A2 key sytems to "new fangled" Electronic key systems, many people didn't want to change then either, but there aren't just to many 1A2 key systems (or "steppers" for that fact) left out there either.

I personally would like to retire at 40,….. oh darn, I guess I missed that one by a few years. Anyway, this is just MHO.


dial tone is a telephony signal used to indicate that the telephone exchange is working and ready to accept a call.
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For some insight into the why, I had a customer/IT person tell me the other day that they wanted the VOIP system so they didn't have to deal with cabling. "I hate cabling" was the remark. Funny thing is, what do VOIP phones run on? smile I think there's a general fear of the 25-pair amphenol cable. Give them something that's more familiar: a Cat 5e patch cord; and regardless of whether they have to learn how to program a system and keep it up for phone calls to come and go, they will be comfortable. Strange mentality. I guess it's not much different than us saying we don't like a particular system, when in reality we are just unfamiliar with it.

Between the buzz words, the hype, and the amphenolphobia, we're in for an uphill battle.

My fear is that the dropped calls and poor quality of service will become as accepted as computer down-time and reboots. It's not logical, since there is already something out there that works reliably 99.9% of the time. However, the justification will be made for whatever reason, and we will see more and more of the VOIP, and less and less of the reliable TDM.

By the way Avalon, it's not VOIP from the handset to the phone system. It's analog (that 6-letter dirty word that NO I.T. person wants to hear as being part of their system) from the handset to the phone, and then VOIP from the phone to the system. smile

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Nicely worded Justin! Amphenolphobia? Does that mean some people are amphenolmaniacs?

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MAYBE, Just MAYBE, VoIP is a grab at the few remaining computer dollars, by an industry that required EVERYONE IN THE WORLD to upgrade for Y2K.

With the technology budget of many companies now on the rise after the recovery and amortization of Y2K expenses, the computer guys have found a new "buzzword" and the minions have begun to subscribe to the earbug of "we need something better than what has been more than reliable enough for the past 100 years"

As key systems began replacing 1A2, it was the "more reliable and better" that allowed the key system to take over. We are hearing whispers of that with VoIP, but, reliability is the greatest issue with telecommunications.

after all, it IS all tip and ring


it's all tip and ring
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Perhaps the commercial VoIP PBX's came about due to it's decreased production costs.

A lot of time and money is spent in order to develop your own switch fabric, logic, cards, and so on.

Now say you realize that there is already a fabric capable of transmitting your voice from Point A to Point B. TCP/IP Ethernet. It's very mature and in widespread deployment. It alleviates you from having to maintain your own physical connections and allows you to use a single cheap NIC that is capable of handling hundreds of calls over one physical connection. Add to that "value" that there is a free protocol standard already developed called SIP. All that is before marketting gets ahold of the idea and goes "We can use it on the internet!". Not much of a stretch to connect those dots. They probably spend more money on the POTS/TDM interface chips then they do on the NIC side of things. Although i'm sure they are just reusing existing designs for this.

Now they look at all the costs involved in developing their own customized RTOS to run this PBX. Since we are using pre-existing wide-spread network technology, why not use pre-existing wide-spread programming technology? No longer are they limited to the small engineering staff they have to write the RTOS for them, but they can use popular languages such as C, C#, etc, to write their PBX as a software platform. Now they have access to literally millions of programmers to write their code.

Since they can now use widespread programming tools to write their applications, then that means they can now use cheap industrial-grade x86 hardware.

Basically, they are assembling a pre-configured pre-engineered pre-existing lego set of computer hardware. Obtaining more money for more usage is now just a software-license away. One hardware system now replaces 5 traditional PBX's depending on the software they install on it.

So from the inside it may seem like computer people are trying to be phone guys, but I think it is the PBX companies that are trying to leverage technology that has already been paid for in order to create a product they dont have a lot invested in. Technology in the computer arena matures faster and evolves faster then anywhere else.

The other side of the coin (Mostly from the Open Source Software side) is that the engineers and programmers may honestly believe that after 100 years of faithful service, the capability of the PSTN network is now limiting us. There may be a better way to have a conversation with someone, or to do business, then what currently exists. The PSTN has done it's duty for over 100 years and done so pretty reliably. But as with all things, they can be outgrown, or outdated. This is what I like to believe, that VoIP is merely the next evolution of voice communications.

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Kumba, Kumba, Kumba, when will you learn? :rolleyes:

You just made the obvious even plainer......

Mature? Computer Technology? The Internet?

Let's take away the old, tired, tried and true infrastructure that has worked for over a century and see how well they work.

Why do CGs always use a cloud for the Internet inter-connectivity? Because they don't know. :confused:

Mature? If Bell Labs hadn't invented the transistor you'd still be the guys in the heavy black rimmed glasses with the plastic pocket protector with a slide rule in it!

Mature? You infants are standing on the shoulders of giants. Once the "gravy" is sucked up the real communications' giants will gnaw the bones of the VoIP industry. A flash in the pan, quick profit, no staying power. The Edsel of the electronics' age.

So how come laptops are so costly compared to desktops? How come this universal interoperability cost more now than a decade ago.....? The magic "License"....pure highway robbery...and for nothing....but another cup of curry that you eat out of your rice bowl.

KUMBA....KUMBA.......Come to the light. Just come out of the darkness.....come to the light.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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ROFL KLD... As a VoIP mod I tend to play with all things IP centric. I'll take it and break it...or take it and make it. I came into this industry in the mid 70s learning telecom installing and repairing gear developed in the 50s. Worked fine..lasted a long time. Did voice excellent. Didn't do video..we had cameras for that. Didn't do data....had punch cards for that. It did what it was designed to do.

VoIP is a technology that promises alot. It's kinda like a first date. All positives put forth but you really don't get to see the real deal until much later.

I can take 10 developers working Asterisk and other open source platforms. I can walk away with 10 different ways of looking at it. I have 10 different boxes working 10 different ways. Waaaay too much room for artistic liberties to be a standard.

Transport between sites is awesome. Telecommuters is excellent. Softphones...way cool. WIFI..love it. Put an IP set on a "normal" network without revamping it with total QOS routers is idiotic. Sellers of this new technologies rarely tell you of the hidden costs. I can sell a TDM/hybrid system to an enduser and they call me when they need me. I'm not there on day 364 demanding licenses or their system will be DOA tomorrow. Small to medium shops don't expect recurring licensing for their handsets and voicemail.

BTW ...gave a quote today to remove a 13 set hosted VoIP solution and replace with a Vertical MP5000 with unified messaging . Demo went well. Customer really liked. Third deal (if I close) from this hosted VoIP provider. smile


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