atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Have dial tone, but Can't dial out - Why? From a consumer

Im thinking its the phone , I have the same problem with my TS22a buttset from time to time , wont break DT switch to pulse make a call then it works fine on tone .
I also have the same problem with the same soultion on my two line ATT sets at home

I bet next time it happens if he switchs to pulse it works .

let us know

If I didn't know better it sounds like a polarity problem,could it be an old switch in CO, If he can recieve calls that is a possibility,Splicers/Installers these days pay no attention to polarity.

I havent seen polarity sensitve phones since the old WE stuff .

Hal, I guess that's because great minds think alike. :thumb:

A while back, someone else said exactly the same thing, word for word, as I did at exactly the same time. Talk about coincidence.

I have to disagree with some previous posts. An errant cable splicer would create a permanent condition that doesn't permit any tone dialing at all through an older telephone set (one without a polarity guard). For someone to even still have them, not to mention two of them on the same line would surprise me. I seriously doubt that this is the case.

This sounds like a shortage of touch tone receivers in the CO switch which is only noticed during peak periods. Since CO switches respond to dial pulse by default, I will bet that switching over to pulse mode will work for every call attempt. That will be the true test and confirmation.

At my home, I frequently encountered a similar situation receiving an "all circuits busy" recording when trying to call numbers in a nearby local central office during peak periods. When I first started complaining, it was still GTE on one end and Bell Atlantic on the other. Once they became Verizon, the problem got fixed. Before that, all they did is point fingers at each other, or better yet, tried to blame the problem on my long distance carrier, as if they even had any part in handling a local call! To a professional in this business, this was clearly due to a shortage of trunks between the offices.

Unfortunately, you are dealing with Verizon. It's going to be hard to reach anyone in the repair department with more than an eighth-grade education. They will ALWAYS tell you that the line tests OK and ther problem is in your equipment or inside wiring. It's their canned response.

You must be persistent and demand to speak with supervisors, being armed with your doccumented information. You will likely have to go further that that, but that's the way it works when dealing with Verizon or any other large provider. Print this information and read every post to them. That might get their attention.

Remember that if they think that they know more than you do, they will have an upper hand over you. Let them know that you have seriously researched this issue. An issue that may very well be their own problem.

Shortcomings in the central office switch are rarely taken seriously when consumers complain. I really wish I had a better answer for you, but aside from switching to another local service provider (which still ends up using Verizon's facilities unless you get dial tone over cable TV), your hands are in Verizon's handcuffs.

I’ll agree with the majority on this one, this is a problem from your central office.
Since your trouble reports have not resolved the problem I would call in a trouble ticket a few more times and document EVERY detail regarding the time you call it in, the person’s name you speak to, and all of the data. Then file a complaint wit the PUC. ( Public Utilities Commission )

It may take a while but it should get results.

I failed to mention that this should be a last resort. I don't think any one involved likes to do it but sometimes there is no other option.

As an IXC/CLEC technician, I deal with Verizon on a daily basis. What usually gets them to look beyond the surface of a problem is if enough people complain about the same issue. If 1 person complains, blame the phone(s). If 100 people complain, then there is a problem.

TTRs are a shared resource so if the TTRs are being maxed out in the switch, other people who pull dial tone out of that same Central Office are going to be having the same problem.

In addition to the tests outlined above, ask around and see if neighbors and friends in the same town/city you live in are having the same problem. You could also disconnect all the telephones in the apartment, plug each one in 1 at a time to see if the problem being caused by one of the phones.

Verizon has separate trouble reporting numbers for IXCs and CLECs to use. These centers do not generally take calls directly from end users or CPE vendors.

I might be able to help out if all of the phones check out OK and it looks like other people are having the same problem. PM me with your area code and the first 3 digits of your telephone number so I can tell Verizon which Central Office you are being serviced out of.

About the worst thing Verizon can tell me is "Have the person call repair" or "We checked the TTR stats and there is no problem".

I’m sure I’m in the minority but I’m suspicious of a channel unit or a common card in a SLC or Litespan system, if the customer is served by pair gain. There may be an alarm generated. A tech gets dispatched to clear the alarm, unseats and reseats the card and the alarm clears. The problem is the faulty card is still in place waiting to fail again. If the problem happens and stays for a day or so & then clears I doubt it’s an overload or shortage of equipment. I’m not certain of the C.O. switch type but the digital switches that I’m familiar with don’t have touchtone receivers. The older analog switches do.
Finding out if some of your neighbors have the same problem may be helpful if the C.O. switch is fairly new and the OEs were assigned using cable and pair lists. If this was done there’s a good chance that neighbors could be utilizing related pieces of C.O. equipment. The more information that you can provide, the better. Date, time of day, weather, did you make or receive a call prior to the problem, is the problem on both phones, do you hear the tones when you dial out.
I do agree that going through normal Verizon repair procedures on a repetitive type problem is a waste of time. If the line tests okay, the repair clerks seem to love to close a report as CPE or inside wiring. They won’t close it as a test okay because when you report again, the repeated report will score against them. They will rarely initiate any action to start changing components in order to help identify the cause of the problem. If I were the customer I would ask what action had been taken to isolate my trouble. Did they change an OE or a channel unit? Did they move me to another slot in the pair gain equipment? You need a way to cut through the layers and get to a person who actually knows something.
(Yes, Ed, there are still a few good technical people at Verizon. The problem is Company policy has their hands tied. Everything routes through Centers staffed for the most part, by young and inexperienced people. The real techs, regardless of their job title, are allowed only to act under the direction the these Centers. Believe me, I share many of your frustrations. I’ve had my own share of problems dealing with Verizon over the past couple of years. The younger techs will never gain the expertise that the older experienced techs had because they’re not allowed to analyze and think on their own. The good competent experienced techs feel the same way. That’s why most of them are retiring. Sorry for the editorial.)

I know sometimes our translations folks mess up and leave the option off the line -- on the DMS it's "DGT", not sure on the 5E. If you hear dialtone and your touch tones but dialtone doesn't go away, switch to pulse dialing and try again. If the call goes through, my money is on line translations. Definitely start documenting dates & times, who you talked to, ticket number, etc. Makes life easier down the road.

Kyle, I am with you on the DGT feature in the DMS, the 5e does have a setting for TTC (touch tone calling) but that would not be an intermitent issue.


bf6b5yr, I do not disagree with you either, I have seen defective cards in Pairgain system act crazy and very intermitently, sometime it is not a bad card but a bad or dirty slot As you are aware the trouble is these days a tech goes to the nid, say's ntf. they never look furter into in the issue until you begin to escalate, I share in your pain of being stuck under the control of certin centers, to much "Process".