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#107261 01/21/08 01:39 PM
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We have a Mitel SX 200 Digital.

Last week we had a new property management system installed. We now have problems with the call accounting.

What we have now is a Prophet H-3 call accounting.

To best describe how it is.
Comming out of the Phophet H there are 2 ports, "System" and "SMDR"

SMDR has a Y cable, one to the Mitel and one to the Printer.

System has a Y cable, One to the "digi port" on the pms, the other is left open.


Now the installers tell us they can get the data when we make a phone call. But they say they need 2 way communication here. We are told we need a Data Set.

Our phone vendors told us they can order one, and will try to install it. The guy that would be doing this hasn't installed one it 10 years he said. But the cost of the Data Set seems real high. So I wanted to know what I should be looking for so we can supply the Data set.

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#107262 01/22/08 12:04 AM
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You dont need a data set. The cable from the H3
system port should be connected to the digi y port (no Y cable) & the h3 set up for Ack -NaK for your pms. Which PMS Are you using.

#107263 01/22/08 12:30 AM
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The dataset is used to provide 2 way communication between the PMS system, and the Mitel PBX. It's used to provide updates between the 2 systems for maid status, checkin/checkout, message waiting, guest names, etc., etc..
The Call Accounting (Prophet H3 in your case), receives the raw phone call data from the Mitel(SMDR), applies a price to it, and sends the priced call to the PMS, so it appears on your folio when you check out. The PMS system (typically) needs to have multiple serial ports to accomodate the multiple systems that connect to it (credit cards, vending machines, voice mail, pbx, internet access fees, movice fees, etc, etc,etc,).


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#107264 01/22/08 02:16 AM
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First of all if it was the PMS people told you that you need a Dataset then once again they have proven that when it come to Telecom interfaces most of them are clueless. Still no worries.

I have probably installed 50 H3s and H10s over the years and many more Summa 4 / Xiox products. As TDS said you don't need a Dataset. If they can see the data you are sending and it looks okay to them then the Baud rate, data bits, parity, and stop bits are probably fine as is the format which you are sending the call. The only reason they need 2 way communication with the call accounting system is so that the H3 will not print every call and alarm you to say that it is not posting, AND if it is set up for full handshake then it will not send the call across until it has received an ACK to it's inquiry that something is there to receive the call.

The split cable coming off the SYSTEM port on the H3 was probably used to have a modem hooked up at the same time. Not the best or most elegant way to do it but could work.

Now the first place to start is to get an RS232 line tester and put it in the cable connection between the H3 and the PMS - make sure you have lights on both RD and TD. Make a call and you should see small blip on one of them when you hang up - that will be the H3 sending an inquiry to the PMS. you should then see the PMS answer back on the other light at which point the H3 should send the call across to the PMS. If this full process is not happening then you need to know where it is breaking down in order to determine what to do next. I can only reiterate that if you are taking direction from the PMS people on how to make the H3 interface you are about 99.9% certain to fail in the attempt.

#107265 01/22/08 10:05 AM
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the PMS is called Opera Express by Micros
The info about the dataset was what the interface guy told me on the phone.
We still get the calls to the printer, so as of now we check it daily and add the calls manually.

The interface guy told me he sees the data coming into the digi port, but said we need the data set to for some reason I didnt' catch.

The only thing we changed on the call accounting, the cable that is connects to the digi port. That used to go to a rocket board port by the front desk server. I removed that 9-pin, added a gender changer then a null modem adapter. This now plugs into a cable with the 9-pin on one end and a RJ45 on the other end to a port on the digi.

Now the Interface guy told me they could hook it up without the dataset if we had the server onsite. But with this new PMS we installed, everything is now remotly hosted.

#107266 01/23/08 02:23 AM
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The Mitel Datasets have nothing to do with the connection between the output of the call accounting system, and the input to the PMS system.
As Dane mentioned, taking direction from some PMS folks can lead to a lot of wasted time!


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#107267 01/23/08 03:44 AM
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I would think that he was mistakenly talking about an iPocket as apposed to a dataset, but that would mean they are running on IP instead of serial protocol and if they have a digi board on site then you are running serial in house. So, Why did you have to add the null modem adapter if the interface was working with the previous system? Did you say they are seeing your data?

Anyway I think it would be worth paying someone for a couple of hours to come to the site with the right tools and test equipment to get to the bottom of it and get it working. It probably is cable / connection related or Micros is not communicating the correct information to you.

#107268 01/23/08 01:26 PM
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We just got a new Property managent system.

The cable out of the Prophet used to go to a rocketboard up at the front desk. Then to the server.

We now have upgraded the property management system. No more servers on site at any of the Country Inn hotels. Every thing will now be remotely hosted. Our PMS is now on a VPN and java ran.
So now the cable that used to go to the server at the desk now has to go to the digi port.
Here's the digi.
https://www.digi.com/products/serialservers/portserverts.jsp

On the back of the digi there are 4 Rj45 (Ethernet) ports
https://www.digi.com/products/serialservers/portservertsspecs.jsp scroll down look at the last pic.

The cable from the back of the digi, one end has the RJ45 the other is a 9 pin serial.

When we used the gender changer and connected the cable, he didn't get any information. He told me to connect a Null Modem adapter. I did. He then told me to check a room in and make a call. Called him back, and he said he's getting the data. So is our printer. But it's not being passed on to the remote server.

Now he's told to to double check and look real hard for the DataSet. He said it's a black box. two cables coming out of it. He said follow the cables from the prophet. one of them should go to the dataset. I told him no! The cable goes directly into the Mitel cabinet.

So he tells me there is nothing else he can do untill we get the dataset.
So now the interface installer is now waiting till I get the dataset before he does anything else.

#107269 01/23/08 03:59 PM
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Okay - you do not need a dataset - absolutely not - the guy does not know what he is talking about. However this is similar to the iPocket that I mentioned before. Did they send you these things pre-programmed?

#107270 01/23/08 04:15 PM
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You need to get back to basics. I would find it hard to believe but years ago a UCS used to put Y cables on Hitachis and I know of one company that used to put certain cables on the H3 that Y'd and they were set up for modems and they had resistors across one side on two and three to stop data from bleeding when a modem was plugged in. Get rid of the darn Y cable and plug the cable from the digiport directly into the system port of the H3 then try it. depending on the cable you get you may or may not need the null modem connector.

Those IP to serial port converters can be VERY Particular. How savvy are you on networking/slash IP protocol? If the cable fix above doesn't do the trick and you aren't too familiar with IP protocol you really might want to hire some help 'cause you could be in over your head and I guarantee you you will be way over the head of the PMS person if you start asking questions. That being said I have worked with one or two good PMS people but they are usually few and far between and from what this yahoo has been telling you he isn't one of them. While you would absolutely need the dataset for the PBX interface (which 55 footer explained earlier in the post) but for Call accounting -ABSITIVELY not.

#107271 01/23/08 04:26 PM
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i belive there looking for a pms interface
along with the call acounting info
if so
The PMS interface communicates the following information between the PBX and the PMS:
• Maid status and room status
• Guest check-in and check-out
• Guest name
• Auto wakeup and message waiting
• PMS related maintenance logs.

this is what the data set would be used for but
i have not seen this on a sx200d iknow it works
on the sx200el/ml & sx200 icp systems.use the i pockets

#107272 01/23/08 04:42 PM
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Yes, everything was pre loaded and programed up.

All we had to do is setup, turn on and plug into the T1

Then call the Interface support. About 10 minutes after that the system was up and running.

It's a real pain as well. I'm handy with computers and can figure things out myself or with a little guidance. But you spend a lot of money on the new system and you don't have any administrative access. 5 PCs, 1 is called the "interface PC" which is locked down.

#107273 01/23/08 04:46 PM
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TDS, I can grab the number off of the mitel tommorrow.

The front of the cabinet says SX200 Digital. But the phone vendors tell me its analog. Not sure.

#107274 01/24/08 01:43 AM
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Buzz;
Don't let this PMS guy intimidate you into dragging this out anymore!!!!
Ask him WHY there are SO MANY ports on the serial adapter!?!?!?!
*One's for priced calls from the Prophet,
*ONE's for the interface to turn the phones on&off,
*ONE's for updating the voicemail system!!!!
**THAT's why there are several serial ports!!!!**


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#107275 01/24/08 02:36 AM
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If one of the cabinets says 200D then it is probably a hybrid system with a digital brain but also utilizes analog cards. This will support a dataset for PBX interface (I always used the "stand alone" 1103 for this - works fine.)

Still that is not the issue here (at least yet) it is the CAS interface. Again I would try running a cable directly from the digiport to CAS (eliminating the existing Y cable). It could also be that on the serial side programming on the digiport there is a flow contol issue.

Do you have a laptop or desktop with serial port connectivity available? If so you can do some testing on the serial port side.

A lot of times the Franchiser looks at the whole PMS situation as just another revenue center. I could possibly see the advantage of doing the interfaces via IP to a central location if everything were done that way - Terminals, printers, etc. But you obviously still have a lot of hardware that you can't administrate. Just seems to create more problems than it solves. Especially when the support people aren't as knowledgeable as they should be.

#107276 01/24/08 05:00 AM
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Let me ask you all this.

What is a Service Module for?
It's hard to see all the wires in this closet but I drew up a legend so you can see what I'm talking about.

The service module has 2 ports on it. One on the bottom is labeled system, has a cable coming out of it the is split. One goes to the digi, the other is loose. On top of the service module is a port called printer. this is also empty.

As for a laptop, I do not have a laptop that has a serial, but I have an older PC I can bring in that has serial conection. I dont know if it helps But I also have the floppy that has the prophetH software. I'm assuming thats for configuring.

Perhaps I'm banging my head as much as you all are. I just dont understand, if my printer is seeing the calls and prints them, and he can see the calls, Why can't that data be passed on to the data center? I dunno. Perhaps they just want ever hotel to have the same setup.

#107277 01/24/08 05:04 AM
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I called a few people here in town.

For what they need, I have a guy thats willing to sell me a used dataset 1103. would this be compatibale with our system?

Anyways, What is the dataset for?

#107278 01/24/08 11:51 AM
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yes that would be compatible, but again I STRESS you do not need a dataset for the CAS interface ONLY for the PBX interface. Throw out the disk with the prophet "software" on it. It actually is a proprietary system used to programmed but you are better off just using Hyperterm or Procom.

Normally a service module for a Prophet H3 is a little white box that has a hardwired cable that goes to the system port on the prophet, a DB25 port labeled modem and a system port that goes to the PMS and/or a touch pad. I sincerely suggest that if you do not have a modem hooked up and you do not have a touchpad that you take the darn service module out of the loop.

Do a reset on the prophet by pushing the recessed reset button on the back near where the cables connect and tell us what option the system is in when the reset message prints out.

Also you didn't tell us that the calls weren't going to the data center I just thought they were seeing the calls but the Prophet wasn't seeing their response.

#107279 01/24/08 02:31 PM
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Well I made a bunch of calls and got down to the bottom of this.

There are a few people working on this and nobody seems to be talking to each other. So by the time I get the info it's all messed up.

Here's what they need now.
The dataset 1103
Properly formatted message from the prophetH

This is for exactly what you guys are saying. They want to interface the pbx with the PMS. Thats step 1.

Final step is the call accounting.
The interface guy I called today, he's the one actually working on the system. He said his system is getting the info and but it isn't properly formated. What he needs is the calls coming from the prophet to be changed. He told me the information needs to have a start message and an end message. I forgot what he exactly said, but I have that written down at work.

I belive I spoke with fiftyfooter today on the phone and he gave me tons of usefull information that I pushed on the interface guy.. Once I told him the info I learned here and on the phone. the interface tech got me in touch with another interface guy that is working on part of the system. He explained what needs to be done and why.

So tommorrow I'm going to either try getting a serial adatper or bring in my old desktop.

#107280 01/25/08 01:02 AM
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Look in pbx there should be some Backup floppy disks in a little blue holder tell us whats on the lable (don,t remove the ons in the drive)

You may All ready Have a data set look at the back of the console is there a db 25 connector
if so this can be used for the pms interface

also the h3 will need to be change for the proper
pms i belive they are useing the micros 452 or 8500 set up for the H3

I really wish you could find a Mitel Tech with
Hospitaly Back Ground This all could be setup
&tested 4-5 Hours max
Good Luck

#107281 01/25/08 01:24 AM
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He is telling you he needs a SOT (start of text) and EOT (end of text) framing the message. Plus the rest of the message needs to be formatted with correct spacing, etc. A bunch of values in rate table 1 in the prophet need to be changed. You are going to have to get in or have someone get in and change those values. If you do it yourself be very careful not to change anything you don't need to.

#107282 01/25/08 01:26 AM
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BTW I was never a big fan of using the console for dataset unless it was the only option. Can certainly involve cabling issues unless the console is close to server/link to server. But that is just my preference.

#107283 01/25/08 01:49 AM
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Just as a note, the serial port on the console is an output port only, for serial printing.
It's not designed for 2 way (Asynch/Synch).


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#107284 01/25/08 02:20 AM
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TDS I do have a blue floppy holder with about 5 floppies. I have tried to read those at one point but the computer can't read those disks. It asks to format them. (I choose no) But when I loaded up my linux machine, I can see there are files on the disks. Just not in a readable format. for IBM/Dos then there is the ProphetH disk. I have made images and put them on CD incase these disks would degrade or get damaged.

I have a desktop I'm bringing in and will take a look at all the documents I can to see if I am able to change these settings.
I know I was in the prophet once to change a few rate codes.

#107285 01/25/08 03:41 AM
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Those diskettes are "Mitel" formatted.
'It's a phone system, not a PC'!
I think TDS was curious to know the rev. level that's printed on them! That can also be found by ging to the console, and pressing the hard key labeled "Function", then the softkey labeled "Identity".


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#107286 01/25/08 04:51 AM
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Yes - PLEASE do not even put those disks in your PC again. Those disks can be very easily damaged. Hopefully they are not corrupted already.

#107287 01/25/08 04:53 AM
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If you have been in the prophet before to change rates then get in touch with Micros and have them FAX or EMAIL you the interface settings for Rate table 1. Someone there will have the document.

#107288 01/25/08 04:54 AM
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If they don't (or say they can't find it) post here and I will see if I can track it down for you and post it here.

#107289 01/25/08 06:35 AM
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I called the Interface tech. He told me the vedor should have those settings.
When I called the vendor he told me he doesn't know off the top of his head. He may be able to figure it out if he was there.

If you could locate the settings that would be great.

#107290 01/25/08 07:15 AM
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Look here they are. Once again the PMS people are not helpful at all. Once again everyone else has to know how to do their hob for them.

I would suggest you save this to a test file. Then when you are in the prophet just copy these to the clipboard and in Hyperterm click on Transfer and then Send Text File and it will save you from having to enter them one at a time. One word of caution before doing that get into rate table one then open up a "capture text file" type in 000 then Y and let it print down through location 199 then stop. Save this to a file in case you need to restore it. I have posted the info here in case anyone else wants to save it as well. Also don't worry if you see some numbers missing - I edited out the things that don't pertain to PMS interface.


030 0.00 031 0.00 032 0.00 033 0.00
034 0.00 035 0.03 037 0.55
038 0.00 039 0.04
040 0.00 041 0.00 042 0.00 043 0.00
044 0.00 045 0.00 046 0.00 047 0.00
048 0.00 049 0.00
050 0.00 051 0.00 052 0.00 053 0.00
054 0.00 055 0.00 056 0.00 057 0.00
058 0.00 059 0.00
060 0.00 061 0.00 062 0.00 063 0.00
064 1.21 065 1.10 066 0.00 067 0.00
068 0.01 069 0.00
070 0.00 071 0.00 072 0.00 073 0.00
074 0.00 075 0.00 076 0.00 077 0.00
078 0.00 079 0.00
080 0.00 081 0.00 082 0.00 083 0.00
084 0.00 085 0.00 086 0.00 087 0.00
088 0.00 089 0.00
090 0.00 091 0.00 092 0.01 093 0.00
094 0.00 095 0.00 096 0.00 097 0.00
098 0.00 099 0.25

#107291 01/25/08 07:17 AM
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ok think I have found what I'm looking for.

PMS Parameters (USED IN RATE TABLE 1 ONLY)
Code
Location----Typical Value-----Description
066  -------- 0.02 ------------ Start-of-Text character for PMS record 0.02 = use ASCII value 002 = STX
067 --------- 0.03 ------------ End-of-Text character for PMS record 0.03 = use ASCII value 003 = ETX
I'l try to hyperterminal in and see what I get.

#107292 01/25/08 07:44 AM
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in the above do not enter location037 as that is the second flat rate location and has to do with call pricing. Also you will probably need the other stuff I posted above as that relates to call formatting, flagging, etc.

#107293 01/25/08 08:06 AM
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I can connect with the prophet H software, but the Hyperterminal I'm having issues with. I dont know how to use HyperTerminal.

I connect teh serial connection up, new connection, com1 ?, then set the baud and other settings as the same as the prophet. But here is where I get lost.

#107294 01/25/08 11:14 AM
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when you set up the connection make sure you are at the correct baud rate (on the prophet it will be 1200 or 300) and make sure you go to settings and set your terminal type to VT100 - don't leave it at auto detect.

#107295 01/25/08 02:13 PM
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Go here to learn how to access h3 & programming

https://www.atcomm.com/SUPPORT/training/index.htm

#107296 01/29/08 05:37 AM
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Looks like everything is all sorted out.

I added the fields, for the start of text and end of text. I have yet to call the Interface installers.

I do have a few other questions but i will make a new thread as it is for rate programming.

Thanks for the help.

BTW, I had to pull out my IBM Thinkpad 365E to use this. I dont know how old this thing is, but it's doing this just perfectly. I also hot the terminal working by double checking the settings.

#107297 02/02/08 07:54 PM
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I freakin hate PMS....All of it!Nothing but a nightmare everytime!!!!!!!!

#107298 02/03/08 09:27 AM
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It's not too bad, once the PMS folks realize that you do know what you're doing. When I was a 'roady' doing Mitel installs, I did so many, I actually had the same PMS on-site folks several times. And what really cracked me up was when they would hand me a much copied sheet of handwritten specs and I would pull out the original and say,'The original is easier to read'. I might add that I signed it before I faxed it to the headquarters of the PMS folks that will remain unamed. smile John C. (Not Garand)


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#107299 02/11/08 04:21 PM
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Update time.

I called the project manager and she told me once I make my changes then system should be up. So we double checked and no calls comming in. The interface guy called and told me the settings are wrong on my end. I ask him what exactly is the format of the call accounting he needs, Any order of the information. He told me he would call back later when he has that information....

What do you know, a few hours later, a different interface guy called and told me he would have their end fixed up in an hour or two. Phone calls coming through and being billed. All with no dataset.

Thanks for all the help guys.

#107300 05/22/12 10:58 PM
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I am having the same issue with calling accounting interface with micros but am using suma pro xiox does any one know the values to change suma pro so micros cn see start of test end of test. xiox doesnt support suma anymore


Danny
#107301 05/22/12 10:59 PM
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oops i mean text


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#107302 05/23/12 08:02 AM
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Okay, first thing: Did you change the PMS system from a prior PMS system? Or did the Xiox just quit sending?

If this system used to work and jsut stopped, then go through and check all the connectors, end to end. Make sure that they're connected.

Different people have their own tricks for testing data throughput. Mine is to use a laptop with hyperterminal or Procomm. Connect the serial port in place of the serial output of the summa to PMS. Set the Baud and parity of hyperterminal or procomm so that it matches the summa.

Send data. You should get clear, recognizable characters, like ^J 0123012301230123012301230123 ^M^J^L or something similar. Micros format is one long string of characters. Hobic and the third protocol -- argh, what's that other one? HIS? -- use spaces to break up the data into more easily readable blocks.

Now, if the Xiox is not sending data, then the problem lies in the Xiox. If the Xiox sends garbage like ^y^y^y^y^y or ^j^j^j^j^j or anything other than recognizable characters, then the baud and parity are wrong. Also, if you get nothing, the baud and parity may be wrong.

If you get nothing, you may need a null modem adapter to swap pins 2 and 3, but if the system used to work, you shouldn't have to make wiring changes.

If the format is micros and you need hobic, or hobic and you need micros (whatever, you get readable info but it's not formatted right) you may be able to work with the new PMS vendor to get the right setup, or you may need have the Xiox changed to the new format. And since Xiox no longer supports it, you might have to buy a new Call-Accounting box.

So, the question, what exactly have you got, and what happened?

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