atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information dtmf?

I doubt it as it seems it's only the DTMF that doesn't work, but wouldn't hurt to check everything.

Note on trunks: Analog trunks with marginal levels are rare. Trunk traffic is heavier than CO lines and cost more because of it. TelCos are supposed to test them with more than just a butt-set. Unlike CO Lines, Telcos deliver trunks at the best possible quality - or at least they used to. If you ever had a CO line audio problem that wasn't fixed because the TelCo said it was within specs, the old solution was to request an upgrade to trunks.

Dave -

Once upon a time in a kingdom by the sea.....

I ran the communications network for one of the largest banks in the USA. I had problems with subscribers at the largest node dialing 9 and getting reorder tone. The OGTs were GS Analog and we had about 200 of them.

The switch was a GTD-4600 (CO network) running as a CU Centrex, Telco was NY Tel and a #1ESS.

Check the trunks at the demarc with a butt set and get DT. Decipher the error messages from the switch and it turns out that the Bell System Blue Book stated that a CO had to deliver DT on a GS request in 250 ms. The GTE switch was waiting 350 ms, not getting DT, trying a 2nd trunk, not getting DT and delivering ROT.

To cut a long story short, we did not have GSTs. We had GSLs - Ground Start Lines. Why not? We had ordered Trunks. We had paid for Trunks. Who changed the order? Eventually it turned out that NO ONE IN NYC HAD GS TRUNKS. They were "too expensive" to provide.

When you ordered a GS Trunk, they gave you ground start, but with a LINE side connection. Someplace along the way they had changed the tariff to price GSLs and GSTs identically.

If you wanted a true Trunk connection you had to get it on a T-1 and it was priced significantly higher. We couldn't even do that because the #1 ESS didn't offer integrated T-1s.

When traffic was heavy in the switch (140 West Street) then DT was delayed on the line side - usually by 1/2 a second or even more. Not so you'd really notice it with a butt set - but sure enough for our network to flag it as a problem.

I was researching instituting a Class Action Law Suit when the SVP of Telecom at the Bank called me in and told me to "cease and desist, forthwith".

The Chairman of the Board of NY Tel sat on the Board of Directors at the Bank.

We put up with it.

Sam

Sam -
I'm sorry if we have wandered a little off the main topic but Wow! I'm speechless. You have the greatest stories! I'm going to assume that NY Tel simply continued charging for GSTs.

Sam is correct about the complicated incestuous politics of telephony in NYC back in the 1970's and 80's.

I worked as a repairman at Columbia University during the early 1970's. The president of NYTelCo sat on the University's Board of Directors. The President of Columbia University sat on the Board of Directors of NYTelCo. Most rich and influential guys in NYC sit on each others' boards. It's just a way of life, and Sam and I and countless others learned the hard way that the golf course or the yacht club is a great place to get things fixed.

When there was a problem with the phone service at the school, the complaint came in to the chief repairman, was dispatched to one of the other repairmen, and then, if the trouble was not cleared in a timely manner, it was escalated to the "next" step, the TelCo president's office. The complaint skipped about twelve levels.

As a duly appointed student employee of a public university, I know exactly what you mean
Influence is everything.

Yup. And to the best of my knowledge they still are. And are still delivering GSLs.

Our situation was compounded by the fact that when the Bank ordered their network switching equipment from GTE they first checked with NY Tel to see if T-1 trunking was available. NY Tel said not for the OGTs, but certainly for the DIDs. We installed the switches and waited for the Telco install.

It never came. Turns out that, Woops! #1ESS switches didn't offer direct T-1 access. Being as the Bank had already ordered, paid for and taken delivery of Digital Trunk Frames NY Tel finally (under threats - probably from their president) delivered 192 DIDs on T-1.

They ran the analog DIDs in the CO into a bunch of channel banks and pumped the T's out to us on the site. Try to imagine trouble shooting . The switch saw the trunks as analog. Transmission saw the trunks as digital. If the whole T went out the switch said: "What?". If an individual trunk went out Transmission said: "What?"

Usually what we heard was Ed's favorite:

MBSWWYP

Sam

Found out about timing on GS trunks the hard way. Working out of a slic hut to a TIE Data Star with the cards set for GST. Almost never got dial tone with the switch. Butt set worked fine. Sorta the same problem. Just that AT&T slics couldn't meet specs. Reliance slics could, according to TIE. Dialog w/SWB went nowhere, they wouldn't buy them and wouldn't even install them if we supplied them! So we went to L/S. Fortunately, we actually got reliable disconnect! John C.