Hello,
I am new to this forum.
Wow, congradulations...
I live in the Montréal, Québec area and would like to find
a technician willing to help me setup my 1A2 515 KSU.
I use to be not so bad with the old Shoebox but that was in the old times...
I would like to wire two phones and two analogue lines to my KSU.
I miss the sound of those buzzers !
Thats for your help!
TelcoBoy
Telcoboy,
Don't be too discouraged if you can't find a tech willing to help you wire up a 515. Many interconnects simply no longer handle 1A2, others that do won't touch residential work [for a variety of reasons].
The good news is, I am almost certain that the folks on this forum can help you get hooked up. Providing detailed information to users of modern systems is discouraged here, but 1A2 is different, mainly because it is seen so rarely anymore in a commercial setting. This forum has more 1A2 experts than you will find anywhere else on the web, and they are always willing to help.
Start by grabbing some documentation for your system:
https://www.telephonecollectors.inf...14-515-type-ksus-connections-maintenanceLots more good stuff at:
https://www.telephonecollectors.info/Take a look at the docs, and then feel free to ask questions here. You may need to post some pics of your equipment, if there is anything unusual going on such as previous modifications to the wiring.
I am not a 1A2 expert by any means, but if I needed help with one, this is the place!
Good luck in your endeavors,
Jim Bennett
==================================================
"He who throws mud only loses ground." -Fat Albert
Hello Jim,
Thanks alot for your response.
In the 80's I was able to work with my 1A2 Old Shoe Box. I think it was a 512 or 513 if I recall.
Now with this new KSU I bought on eBay, I am lost.
Actually I just need to get a good detailed description of the two or three 66 blocks located in the KSU.
Stephane
Stephane:
The shoebox is a 551 KSU. The theory of operation and wiring is almost identical in a 513/514/515 KSU.
You need to look at the BSP (518 - 215 - 405) and then find the incoming T&R terminals for the slot(s) that you intend to use, and then find the output T,R,A,A1,LG and L leads for those slots.
Check out the diagram on page 27 and you should be able to see enough info for a couple of CO lines.
Do a Google search for the following "BSP 515 KSU TCI"
The 515 was the predecessor to later ComKey designs with regard to KSUs. They were truly meant to be goof-proof. There is no doubt that following the aforementioned BSPs will put you on the right path. As Jim said, we do love to play with this stuff and make it work magic, so you have found the right place for support.
Wow,
Thanks guys!
I really appreciate your support.
I wanted to post pictures of my setup so you guys could really see what my KSU really is but don't know how.
I thought that I could just download them to this post but seems that I need a server running to do so and I don't.
Is there another way to do this?
Thanks
put your photos on Photo bucket or any other online free hosting site then you can post the URL here and the pics will show up
Hi guys,
I am about ready to install my 1A2 KSU.
I have a few questions.
1. What is my KSU type? Is it a 515?
2. I have an eveloppe with fuses. Are all the fuses already in the KSU or do I have to add them?
3. There are two 66 blocks and one small block. This is where I am lost. In my old shoe box there was one 66 block and it was easy but now !!
Can someone explain to me where the T R, A A1, L LG and R RC are located? Even with the Bell System Practises papers I have a hard time understanding.
I also added a picture of all the cards installed in the KSU. Will I be able to wire analogue stations from my Nortel BCM50 on
some of these cards?
Thanks for your help guys...
By the way I have added a picture of my Telco room. Feel free to comment!
Thanks,
https://s271.photobucket.com/user/telcoboy/slideshow/Telcoboy
In the BSP that I suggested that you download, in Figure 1, you will see that you have a 513 type KSU. The right hand side expansion unit is a 514, and the entire assembly is called a 515.
The fuses are to be installed on the fuse block at the top of the unit.
In the BSP, Figure 3 shows the names and placement of the three 66-type blocks. This diagram shows you what they look like, where they are, and how to count the pins.
In Figure 8, it shows you where the T,R,A1,A,LG & L leads are terminated for each line.
Only telephones designed to work with this system will work. They are 565, 2565, 831, 2831, 851, 2851, etc, WE or equivalent 1A2 key telephones. Single-line (500- and 2500-type) telephones will work, if they are converted for A-lead control. What type phones are you planning to use?
https://seriss.com/people/erco/1a2/2564-pinout.htmlThis is a really useful printout I used for wiring my KSU.
Scott
I thought the KSU I bought on eBay was the same type as my old shoe box that I had 20 years ago.
I had an old logic 10 that I thought I could use.
I was planning to buy and old Western Electric 2500 series 1A2 6-Button Touchtone Desk Phone and maybe an ITT 2564 six button desk phone.
Are they compatible?
What about my line cards are they ok for what I want to do?
I will look at the document over again. Hopefully I will understand.
20 years ago I was able to play with my shoe box with almost no problems. I could add lines and stations to the KSU.
I should be able to work things out if I just can understand the wiring codes.
I just looked at the layout for the 66R1, 66R2 and 66R3 blocks but I have reference where the CO lines are patched and where the stations are supposed to be. In my old shoe box all the pins were identified. Is there a document that gives me this information?
Thanks
You will be able to use any 1A2 telephone set, regardless of the manufacturer. Just be careful with the last three violet pairs on 565/2565 sets as they have specific functions for use with the 4A speakerphone set. Don't allow them to touch anything.
Your line cards are the last generation of ones made by WE. They are 100% solid state (no relays), so they don't make any noise. They also don't require grounding to ring on incoming calls, so you'll be good when using non-traditional sources for dial tone, as in CATV modems, Asterisk equipment, etc.
The fuse block above the power supply most certainly needs to be populated. These largely control steady lamp, flashing lamp and winking lamp for each line card slot. You'll need to refer the your BSP to find out which ones provide power to which slot(s).
"Is there a document that gives me this information?"
Yes, Figure 8 in the BSP.
I don't think I've ever seen that type of KSU!
What differentiates it from a 501? 6 Lines, power supply, intercom, blocks.....
What did it offer that the 501 didn't?
Sam
Sam, it was Mother's last attempt at a packaged 1A2 system. It is a packaged, densely-populated box, that accommodates 4" and (more importantly) 8" cards, like the various DICM units, with all the internal wiring ready to go. It is also expandable with the addition of the 514. The combination could provide (ISTR) 14 CO lines and a large DICM. To install it properly, you need to run a connecting cable out to an IDF, otherwise it gets crowded quickly. That is its only drawback, as a "plug-n-play" box. But it is simplicity itself to install.
The next (and last) iteration of 1A2 was the 6xx series of modular panels. That family came out "just after the nick of time." A few minutes later, the Merlin®, etc, skinny wire systems were upon us.
Read the BSP and you'll appreciate its tight and compact engineering. If anyone wants one, one of my fellow members at TCI bought a few dozen of them at a GL auction. Just speculation, but that's where the one that our OP got his, I suspect, via Ebay. It probably is NOT marked "Bell System" (either the words are covered with a sticker, or obliterated in some other manner) but rather has a model number of "513AW".
Like most WE sold to the govt, the W stands for War department. Anytime you see a W at the end of WE model number, or the words "Bell System" missing from what you know is a BS product, that's where it came from. Since the product was never sold to a BOC, it had no reason to be labelled Bell System.
Thanks, Arthur. Makes sense.....
Sam
Good morning guys,
I did my homework and downloaded the documents needed. I read them and starting to understand them.
My first step this morning is to install all the fuses in the fuse box on top of my unit.
There are 15 to be installed.
They go as follows;
F1 5A
F2 5A
F3 1/2A
F4 2A
F5 2A
F6 2A
F7 2A
F8 2A
F9 2A
F10 2A
F11 2A
F12 2A
F13 2A
F14 2A
F15 2A
F16 Spare location.
Do they all need to be there? Seems alot!
Where can I get replacement fuses ( 1/2A, 2A and 5A ) if I blow one during the wiring in the near futur? They are probably hard to get !
Thanks,
Stephane
Finding the actual fuses may be tough. You can, however, purchase fuse wire. You can then repair the operated fuses yourself. Do a Google search and you'll find several sources.
Rcaman
Does anyone know the exact voltage for these fuses?
Stephane
The voltage is going to be in the low voltage range around 24 VDC. You will notice that most fuse wire ratings will be 32 Volt for low voltage ratings. Since your voltage requirements are lower than 32 Volts, the 32 Volt rating is fine. All high voltage fuses will be glass AG style fuses.
Rcaman
The way to avoid blowing fuses is to power the system down while you are working on it.
Good morning guys,
I finally installed all the 15 fuses on the top of my unit. It took me a little while because I had screws that were stuck. They were so stuck that I had to remove the unit from the wall to be able to finally unscrew the hard ones.
I have a brand new KSU, but my god is it OLD !
After following your advise, I read and read the documents and finally understood what I was reading.
I have powered the unit with all fuses installed. I let the unit powered for two days. I wanted to evaluate the unit and the fuses.
Everything was perfect even after all these years in storage.
Now, just to make sure that I understood what was doing, I added one CO line to the unit.
I wanted to see if the unit would take the incoming ringing process. It did, the motor and the straps were in good condition.
Everything seems to work fine. The little motor makes a smooth sound and runs perfectly.
I had to change the CO card in the unit though, the first time I called in the unit I had nothing happening.
I replaced the CO card ( 400H KTU Issue 2) by the
CO card ( 400H KTU Co/PBX Line CKT) to make it work.
I don't know why the first one did not work?
I have jumpers on both of these cards.
Does anyone know or have the user guide for these cards?
I would like to know what the jumpers are used for and what they offer when they are removed or changed.
Just to let you know I did not use a CO trunk to make my first test. I used an analogue extension from my BCM50.
I will wait for your answers before I continue my trip with my unit.
Thanks for the solution for the replacement fuses but if someone has some spare fuses to sell I would be willing to buy them from you.
I would like to keep the original parts for my unit if possible!
Thanks and have a good day!
Stephane
Arthur would know for sure, but I think the jumpers are for music on hold and possibly for ringing.
Reapiring the fuses with fuse wire will insure your fuses will always be "original." Just use a low wattage pencil iron and replace the operated fuse wire with a new piece.
The BCM does not provide true 90 VAC ringing. It uses a modified pulsating DC to mimic AC ringing. For most equipment, it works. 400 KTUs can be finicky when it comes to ringing voltage. There may even be a jumper for that on the newest KTUs.
Rcaman
The jumpers (option plugs in your case) on CO line cards are for two main functions. One is flashing or steady lamp on incoming calls. The other is for bridged or grounded CO ringing. On earlier card versions, they also had an option for interrupted or steady station ringing.
My guess as to why the first card didn't ring on your BCM dial tone is that it must be strapped for grounded ringing instead of bridged ringing. Again, that is just a guess.
The "user guide" is called a Bell System Practice. Remeber the one I referenced to get you familiar with the KSU? To find a BSP for any Western Electric item, use Google, and search for the model name or number, followed by the term "BSP" and (optionally) "TCI library."
The screws are tight because the are not supposed to be removed. Did you not notice that the fuses are open-ended?
To find out what the jumpers do (you shouldn't really need to do anything with them, because the factory settings should be just what you need) Google the BSP for the particular issue you are using.
Here's what you said: "I wanted to see if the unit would take the incoming ringing process. It did, the motor and the straps were in good condition."
The motor is called an interrupter (again, PLEASE refer to the BSP for the correct names of things.) What do you mean by "straps were in good condition."?
Hello Arthur,
I was able to download the document for the 400H line card. I read it a few times to try and understand it. It doesn't say much on the jumpers, but I will find out !
I thought I read somewhere that the interrupter had straps that could be moved in different positions.
When I plugged in my unit for the first time and made my first incoming call I heard the interrupter work smoothly.
Thinking that there were straps making everything turn properly, that is why I stated that the straps where in good condition.
Sorry for my misunderstanding. I will be more careful!
My next step is to wire my first station. I only have a logic10 telephone. I will get the right documents for this set and get familiar with it first.
I would've perferred starting with a 2564 model but cannot find one on eBay yet!
Anyone have these for sell?
Stephane
Hi guys,
I am having problems with my installation.
Here is what I have done so far:
1. connected an analogue line from my BCM50 to the 1A2 unit
on pins 13G and 14G on block 1
2. connected the T R to pins 13 and 14 on block 1
3. connected the A A1 to pins 15 and 16 on block 1
4. connected the L LG to pins 17 and 18 on block 1
I am using a touch tone logic 10 for my testing. Now when I call in the 1A2 unit the light starts flashing for the incoming call. When I press the flashing key on the logic 10 phone and pick the handset the light is on and steady but the call is not picked up. If I hang up the light starts to flash again announcing an incoming call !
No dial tone on the set.
Hum ...
This is what I tried to resolve this issue but with no luck !
I tried using the phone line directly from my cable modem, no luck.
I tried to move the jumpers on the line card 400H (Co/Pbx), no luck.
I tried to change the line card for an identical on, no luck.
I tried to try another line card 400H (Issue 2), no luck.
I tried to move the jumpers around, no luck.
All my fuses are good.
Don't know what to do?
When you call in the flashing light of the key is at one speed. The flashing light on hold is at a faster speed. It is so you can tell if a call is coming in or a line is on hold when multiple lights are flashing. It appears the A and A1 are functioning since you can trip the interrupter by going off hook, however the dialtone or incoming call are not cutting through the ksu when the A and A1 short through the key when it is depressed. When you hang up it appears that the ksu is going into false hold condition. I think you have a compatibility issue between your ksu and telephone set.
Do you have a hand test set, buttin, butt set, buttinski, goat? If yes you can disconnect the phone and test from the 66 block.
You have given us half the information we need to help you. You have described an incoming call and its problems.
What happens when you try to make an outgoing call, using exactly the same dial tone source, KSU, KTU, wiring and telephone set?
(John, we do not know if he means that the line goes on false hold, or if he means that the incoming ring from an un-tripped call, has started the interrupter again.)
The fact that the call reverts to incoming again upon hanging up is indicative of the absence of a complete talk path to answer the call. Logic phones had a connector on the side to accommodate a speakerphone set. In order to function, I think that there was an option plug that intercepted the tip/ring from the keystrip to allow the speakerphone to have priority of the line that was selected. With this plug not in place, tip and ring never get seized upon going off-hook.
It would be much easier to diagnose this if the OP had another 1A2 set to use for testing.
Thanks Art, thats why I mentioned the flashing light speeds in hopes he could learn the difference.
Is there a compatibility chart for 400 units? Mix and match allowed, not allowed, features etc.
I looked on ebay and saw a lot of 400's for sale and remember when we were told to try and match the 400's on an install or at least keep them within a couple of letters of each other.
Thanks,
John O
All 400-types (and the SanBar 4000-types) are compatible. You should not dwell on the KTU's. They are not your problem.
You need to understand what happens before and after the KTU, and how the telephone itself works. These are not things that can easily be typed, as you are asking for an entire lesson in 1A2 key telephony.
Instead, do what the other people have recommended: Get a traditional (non Logic) key set and plug it in. Then, if you get troubles, use your butt set and trace out where the failure is.
1. System idle. Using a butt set, see if there is dial tone on the COT & COR. If no, trouble shoot dial tone to the KSU. If yes, go off hook. Can you break dial tone? If no, trouble shoot dial tone source. If yes, proceed on to 2.
2. System idle. Using butt set, see if there is dial tone on the T&R set side. If no, replace 400 KTU. If yes, go on to 3.
3. Set up an incoming call to KSU. Using the butt set, see if there is ringing on COT & COR? If no, trouble shoot incoming line for ringing problem. If yes, go off hook. Can you stop ringing and establish a talk path? If no, trouble shoot incoming line. If yes, go on to 4.
4. Remove all set side wiring from T&R, A, A1 L and LG of the KTU under test.
4a. Set up an incoming call to KSU. Using butt set, see if there is ringing on T&R set side. Go off hook. Short A and A1 of the line being tested. Maintain short. Did the ringing stop and do you have a talk path? If no, trouble shoot wiring and KTU. If yes, KTU and incoming line are working properly.
5. Connect set side wiring to T&R, A, A1, L and LG of KTU being tested. Repeat 4a. If no, trouble shoot set side wiring. If yes, trouble shoot connected phone. When 4a is being done, you should see a visual indication on the connected phone. The flashing lamp will turn solid.
Rcaman