outside Cat 5 - 10/27/05 10:11 PM
When run on the exterior of a building, do i need to protect Cat 5 from damage or from weather? If so, what is recommended method? Thanks.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/28/05 05:47 AM
Recommended method is to rerun the wire on the inside of building there is no good way of protecting Cat 5 outdoors
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/28/05 06:31 AM
Merritt is right, but if you have to, consider using conduit rated for the application. Feel free to post back if you have any issues. We're always glad to help. Noticed this is your first post. 
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/28/05 04:28 PM
Actually, you can purchase type CMX CAT5 cable that is sunlight (UV) resistant. Most direct burial CAT5 cable meets this criteria, but you can't run it indoors since it is flamable.
Anything that's already installed is likely shot since it's not likely that CMR or CMP cable can sustain being exposed to the weather very long.
Anything that's already installed is likely shot since it's not likely that CMR or CMP cable can sustain being exposed to the weather very long.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/28/05 05:34 PM
Use a gel filled cat 5.
If you need some extra protection put it in conduit or innerduct. It works great and we have some that has been out there for years.
Now if you are going from building to building in a matter that will expose you to possible lightning etc...use cat 5 protectors. They are readily available at most distributers.
If you need some extra protection put it in conduit or innerduct. It works great and we have some that has been out there for years.
Now if you are going from building to building in a matter that will expose you to possible lightning etc...use cat 5 protectors. They are readily available at most distributers.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/28/05 06:58 PM
Thanks y'all for your replies. I found this forum on a thread at the ECN Forum.
Merritt- as for your statement that there is no good way to protect Cat 5 outdoors, what about when you all run your home runs to the outside for the phone company to land in the demarc? This is basically what i will be doing: in a remodel, adding a home run from a bedroom to the demarc, which as i understand it (haven't been to the site yet) is located right outside the bedroom wall. So if the Cat 5 is exposed for such a short lenght is that considered okay? or is your answer still the same? Thanks.
Merritt- as for your statement that there is no good way to protect Cat 5 outdoors, what about when you all run your home runs to the outside for the phone company to land in the demarc? This is basically what i will be doing: in a remodel, adding a home run from a bedroom to the demarc, which as i understand it (haven't been to the site yet) is located right outside the bedroom wall. So if the Cat 5 is exposed for such a short lenght is that considered okay? or is your answer still the same? Thanks.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/29/05 06:42 PM
Well, if you want to follow the NEC, all wiring that is exposed less than eight feet above ground is supposed to be protected by "some adequate means". Even low voltage wiring since this requirement falls under "wiring methods" in the code. I interpret this as cable guard or conduit.
Does anybody do it for low-voltage? Of course not! Would an electrical inspector bust you for not protecting it? I seriously doubt it. I would't worry about a short exposed length, just do the best you can to keep it out of harm's way and out of direct sunlight and it should be fine. If you need a short length of CAT5 cable that's outdoor rated, just let me know in a PM and I will send you some.
Does anybody do it for low-voltage? Of course not! Would an electrical inspector bust you for not protecting it? I seriously doubt it. I would't worry about a short exposed length, just do the best you can to keep it out of harm's way and out of direct sunlight and it should be fine. If you need a short length of CAT5 cable that's outdoor rated, just let me know in a PM and I will send you some.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 09:28 AM
Well I guess you didn't like what I had to say over at the ECN forum. You drove me nuts with CAT5, CAT5, CAT5 making me think you were running a data network drop. :bang:
Don't know why you are making a big deal over this though I suspect it is because of your lack of understanding. Sorry but I find that IBEW guys are the worst at this.
what about when you all run your home runs to the outside for the phone company to land in the demarc?
That's probably the worst thing you can do, running all the 4 pair home runs outside then expecting them to be connected to a demarc that is designed for a few pair at most.
What you should do is choose a location inside to run all your home runs to. Punch them all down on a 66 block so that they can be cross connected as necessary to the CO lines. Then do only one run from there out to the demarc for those CO lines.
As far as protection on the outside- again it's not necessary. As I've said to you before if stop using CAT 5 cables for voice you will find that there are many CAT 3 cables dual listed for indoor/outdoor use.
-Hal
Don't know why you are making a big deal over this though I suspect it is because of your lack of understanding. Sorry but I find that IBEW guys are the worst at this.
what about when you all run your home runs to the outside for the phone company to land in the demarc?
That's probably the worst thing you can do, running all the 4 pair home runs outside then expecting them to be connected to a demarc that is designed for a few pair at most.
What you should do is choose a location inside to run all your home runs to. Punch them all down on a 66 block so that they can be cross connected as necessary to the CO lines. Then do only one run from there out to the demarc for those CO lines.
As far as protection on the outside- again it's not necessary. As I've said to you before if stop using CAT 5 cables for voice you will find that there are many CAT 3 cables dual listed for indoor/outdoor use.
-Hal
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 10:13 AM
OK, now I'm confused. Why is Cat V cable being ran to a telco Demarc? I must have missed something. :shrug:
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 10:18 AM
Oh, so right, hbiss. But --- around here SBC demands Cat 5 from the demarc or they won't hook up for us in residential (DSL?). Smart house and all else need an internal distribution system and a feeder from the demarc --- NOT EVERYTHING to the SNI. 
I'm glad I don't do residential.
KLD
I'm glad I don't do residential.
KLD
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 10:24 AM
Here Here, Hal,
On the money. The last thing this world needs is another interface (NID, demarc, protector) full of scotchlocks.
Tripp,
what if you put in a system or a hub (switch)? Your not going to put that outside are ya?
Mac has a point too. The cable out in the field (the outside plant) is at very best rated a cat 3 and most is level 1 cable (hell in some places it is still paper insulated cable)so why run a cat 5 in from the protector.
That's my 2+2+2=6 cents worth. :thumb:
On the money. The last thing this world needs is another interface (NID, demarc, protector) full of scotchlocks.
Tripp,
what if you put in a system or a hub (switch)? Your not going to put that outside are ya?
Mac has a point too. The cable out in the field (the outside plant) is at very best rated a cat 3 and most is level 1 cable (hell in some places it is still paper insulated cable)so why run a cat 5 in from the protector.
That's my 2+2+2=6 cents worth. :thumb:
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 11:06 AM
around here SBC demands Cat 5 from the demarc or they won't hook up for us in residential (DSL?)
Like to know why. Is the rest of the house using CAT5? Is their OSP cable CAT5? There is actually a downside to using CAT5 or CAT6 for DSL. The increased capacitance on each pair due to the tight twists can cause additional attenuation of the DSL carrier with long runs.
The only thing I can think of for that requirement is that they are thinking ahead for fiber to the home (FTTH) as Verizon has just rolled out here. An optical interface unit is installed on the outside of the house and a ethernet cable is run inside to the router. This of course would be a CAT5 or 6 cable. The question is what good would it be when it is dressed and terminated for POTS unless additional slack is provide at each end for retermination.
-Hal
Like to know why. Is the rest of the house using CAT5? Is their OSP cable CAT5? There is actually a downside to using CAT5 or CAT6 for DSL. The increased capacitance on each pair due to the tight twists can cause additional attenuation of the DSL carrier with long runs.
The only thing I can think of for that requirement is that they are thinking ahead for fiber to the home (FTTH) as Verizon has just rolled out here. An optical interface unit is installed on the outside of the house and a ethernet cable is run inside to the router. This of course would be a CAT5 or 6 cable. The question is what good would it be when it is dressed and terminated for POTS unless additional slack is provide at each end for retermination.
-Hal
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 01:15 PM
So will the not give DSL to a customer who lives in an apartment building that is prewired Cat 3? Seems strange especially when they're cable is 3 coming to the demarc. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. (We're talking about the phone company so insert your own joke here.)
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 06:47 PM
Naah, probably only new resi construction and I doubt it has anything to do with DSL which will be history in a few years anyway like ISDN is now.
Probably some idiot with SBC thinks it's going to save them money because they won't have to rerun the cable when they do FTTH. Yeah right. :rofl:
-Hal
Probably some idiot with SBC thinks it's going to save them money because they won't have to rerun the cable when they do FTTH. Yeah right. :rofl:
-Hal
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/30/05 07:52 PM
Let's face it; "CAT5" is just a buzz word that electricians who don't have a clue; computer geeks who want everything "their way" and builders looking for ways to yank a few more dollars out of their customer's pocket are making money from.
CAT5 from the NID is a complete waste, NO OSP cable to the NID is capable of delivering this standard. OK, maybe FIOS (Verizon's excuse for competition with cable TV companies) might be a justifiable reason for CAT5, but come on. EVERY standard that's being offered by cable and telephone companies must be able to work using existing wiring systems.
As TelecomTex said, even "CAT ZERO" pulp cable still exists out there as building risers as well as OSP. We just got done extending 235 ISDN circuits from a DMARK to the ninth floor via this 60+ year-old lead-sheathed pulp cable without a hitch. It's all a sales game; telco services have to be able to survive the transport media they have available everywhere in their service territory. They would be fools to introduce technology that can only be offered in spotty areas based upon the type of feeder or distribution cable they are using. That varies by the block on any given street!
Again, CAT5 is just a word that adds up to dollar signs for people who don't have a clue. Sure, I'll sell it to them, but I at least try to be honest with them up front. They usually believe everyone BUT me, they guy who is taking their check. Fine by me!
CAT5 from the NID is a complete waste, NO OSP cable to the NID is capable of delivering this standard. OK, maybe FIOS (Verizon's excuse for competition with cable TV companies) might be a justifiable reason for CAT5, but come on. EVERY standard that's being offered by cable and telephone companies must be able to work using existing wiring systems.
As TelecomTex said, even "CAT ZERO" pulp cable still exists out there as building risers as well as OSP. We just got done extending 235 ISDN circuits from a DMARK to the ninth floor via this 60+ year-old lead-sheathed pulp cable without a hitch. It's all a sales game; telco services have to be able to survive the transport media they have available everywhere in their service territory. They would be fools to introduce technology that can only be offered in spotty areas based upon the type of feeder or distribution cable they are using. That varies by the block on any given street!
Again, CAT5 is just a word that adds up to dollar signs for people who don't have a clue. Sure, I'll sell it to them, but I at least try to be honest with them up front. They usually believe everyone BUT me, they guy who is taking their check. Fine by me!
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/31/05 04:34 PM
Take a valium, Hal. No need to slur the IBEW just because not everyone or every LOCALE does things exactly like you. Thanks for nothing.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/31/05 04:39 PM
I ended up buying 10' of outdoor rated (CMR/CMX) Cat 5 cable and was able to tuck it under the siding. At .34/ft hardly a budget breaker.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 10/31/05 06:37 PM
No need to slur the IBEW just because not everyone or every LOCALE does things exactly like you.
I think that between this board and ECN you have been given lots of good information. Hopefully you will take it as it was intended which was to help you understand what you are doing better rather than become defensive because you are IBEW.
What I do expect is that not everybody knows everything. Take the opportunity and profit from those who have experience where you don't. The real craftsman will always be looking at the work of others and learning from it.
-Hal
I think that between this board and ECN you have been given lots of good information. Hopefully you will take it as it was intended which was to help you understand what you are doing better rather than become defensive because you are IBEW.
What I do expect is that not everybody knows everything. Take the opportunity and profit from those who have experience where you don't. The real craftsman will always be looking at the work of others and learning from it.
-Hal
Re: outside Cat 5 - 02/09/06 01:02 PM
Hello, My situation is somewhat similar to what was asked. However I have not seen an answer. I have a short run of about 12 inches of cat 5 running from the outside of my home to the teleco demark box. I have become concerned about the weather deteriorating the cat 5 and was wondering if it can be protected.
It is not possible to move the demark box so it does not leave any cables exposed because of where the cat 5 comes out is directly under where the main electrical comes out and the main electrical service line that is brought up out of the ground passes directly over where the cat 5 actually leaves my house.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
It is not possible to move the demark box so it does not leave any cables exposed because of where the cat 5 comes out is directly under where the main electrical comes out and the main electrical service line that is brought up out of the ground passes directly over where the cat 5 actually leaves my house.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 02/09/06 01:21 PM
You will not have a problem at all. Most telephone company services (including DSL) that terminate in a residential network interface don't require anything nearly as complex as CAT5 wiring. It's really more of a buzz word in residential construction because voice communication has been handled even by non-categorized cable for over a century.
If it will make you feel more comfortable, a few layers of good-quality electrical tape spiral-wrapped around the exposed cable(s) will be more than adequate.
If it will make you feel more comfortable, a few layers of good-quality electrical tape spiral-wrapped around the exposed cable(s) will be more than adequate.
Re: outside Cat 5 - 02/09/06 03:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hbk:
Hello, My situation is somewhat similar to what was asked. However I have not seen an answer. I have a short run of about 12 inches of cat 5 running from the outside of my home to the teleco demark box. I have become concerned about the weather deteriorating the cat 5 and was wondering if it can be protected.
Hello, My situation is somewhat similar to what was asked. However I have not seen an answer. I have a short run of about 12 inches of cat 5 running from the outside of my home to the teleco demark box. I have become concerned about the weather deteriorating the cat 5 and was wondering if it can be protected.
When my house was built, the builder ran 2 cat5e cables for the phone lines, right out the side of the house, and about 18" over to the NID. They've been out there over 5 years now, with direct sun exposure all day long, driving rains, etc. No problems so far.
The point is that your existing cable may be fine for a long time. In theory, you could use PVC conduit to run from the NID into the house. Not difficult and not expensive, but is it worth it for such a short run?