First off, this is really a cool forum. You don't come by forums full of helpful people like this too often.

I did some reading/searching and got most of my questions answered. However, I still have a few more.

I am currently having a house built, and I work in a small IT shop where I do a little of everything. So as you can imagine I am super excited to wire my house. I would like to run my "plan" past some of you to get some feedback.

So here it goes...

Cat6 patchpanel, and rg6 coax patchpanal in the basement. Cat6, RG6 cable from there to all wallplates. The first floor rooms I intend to simply drill through the bottom plate of the wall run the wires from the basement through the hole up into the wall, and to the keystone wallplate.

For the second floor I am having them install a 3" PVC pipe from the basement to the attic space.
So for the second floor I would run from the panel to the pipe in the basement, up the pipe into the attic, to the top of the wall where the jack is, drill through the top plate of the wall, run the wire down the wall to the wallplate.

I have read the national electric code 70, but to be honest it is a little hard to understand. I guess I am most concerned that the wiring I am going to be doing is going to pass code inspection.

The Cat6 is CMR, and the Coax is CMX. I am using the "low-voltage boxes"

Is the method/path I am choosing code acceptable? I think power wire needs to be run horizontally through the wall. (not that i am doing any)

Should the pipe be of any special type? like actual electical conduit, or will white pvc pipe be acceptable? At this point I don't know what they are planning on using.

Maybe I have nothing to worry about as is a single family dwelling???

As you can tell I am in need of some serious help. Thanks in advance...

Thanks very much for the compliments about our forum and welcome aboard. You'll get plenty of assistance here.

I agree that reading NFPA70 is like reading the Bible in reverse. Fortunately, your situation is not subject to a lot of scrutiny as long as you do a clean job and don't act like a fool.

Let's get the legal stuff out of the way first. Any type of cable that is rated CMX is limited in length to 50 feet and only for use in residences. Will this be caught by an inspector? I doubt it, but I'd think that you can get RG6 with a CMR rating for the same price. Buy quad-shield RG6 if it doesn't break the bank

White PVC pipe is technically only approved for DWV (Drain/Waste/Vent) applications when used indoors. Any connecting conduits for your wiring should be contained within gray PVC electrical conduit. Schedule 40 is the standard and will be fine for your application. I really doubt that you would encounter any resistance for using either type for just a simple wiring chase.

Vertical penetrations between floors or even through a sole/top plate require fire stopping in most places. Usually, this is done by using red caulk. Because of this, I prefer to spend an extra two bucks per outlet and use a piece of 3/4" ENT ("Smurf tube"). Fire stop that thing all day long, yet you will still have a clear channel to add/remove wires from above or below. ENT is sold in 10' lengths at most home centers, so leave the excess in the attic, especially for outlets on outside walls. That way you won't have to crawl so far into the corners of the attic to get to the end. You (or a future installer) will appreciate that extra three feet sticking up through the insulation.

Always, always run an empty conduit between floors as you have planned. 3" might be overkill, but why not? An inspector will likely insist that you seal both ends with fire stopping caulk to prevent drafts. In my area, all that is expected is typical foam spray to block vertical draft.

CAT6 is overkill, but if that floats your boat and you have deep pockets, then go for it. You are only adding expense and labor for yourself by using it. If you follow the concept of using tubing/conduit to open all possible pathways in the walls, then you can rest at ease. You can pull next year's technology in with a simple trip into the attic.

My personal attitude about wiring houses for voice/data/video is to pipe them, not to wire them. Throw in some empties on as many walls as you deem practical. The extra few bucks might make you day when it comes time to move furniture.

Welcome to the forum, Briggs.

The conduit you use should be approved for electrical use. White PVC is for plumbing. You can find grey PVC that is made for electrical/ communications work.

"Low voltage boxes" is a little vague. If you are talking about something like this , note that they cannot be used in fire rated walls.

Using cat6 for voice is completely pointless. If you want cat6 for data everywhere, then that's good, but cat3 is more than adequate for any voice needs. If it were my home, I'd run one cat3, one cat6, and one RG6 (voice, data, video) to most receptacles, in 3/4" ENT.

I'd have to look at the 08 NEC to find the section(s), but I'm fairly certain that you cannot run power and communications cabling through the same stud/joist/plate holes or conduit. I'd also surmise that using CMX rated cable is not acceptable when penetrating multiple floors.

If your attic is big enough to ever be a finished attic, you may want to consider running all cable down into the basement rather than in the attic, first floor wall placement permitting.

Installing a 3" vertical conduit in a home may be tricky - I'm guessing at some point it will run through one or more 2x4" top/bottom plates, which are 3.5" wide. A 3" conduit is 3.5" wide. If the walls through which it will pass are all 2x6 or larger, then you should be okay (you'd still need nailplates by code unless the conduit is EMT). A 3" conduit to service the v/d/v needs of just the second floor of a home seems like overkill to me.

All vertical penetrations as well as those through fire rated walls need to have appropriate firestopping.

This should go without saying, but all cable runs should be homerun from the jacks to the basement.

Jack

I don't know how many runs, but a keystone patch panel could handle both the ethernet and catv connectivity.

Had I waited another 10 minutes, I could have just typed "What Ed wrote".

Jack

Good advice from Ed and Jack. I would add further comments to the coax installation. NEC Art 820 covers CATV, satellite and antenna wiring in buildings. For some reason the listings for coax are a little different than the rest of the low voltage cables. Here is the poop:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Summary - 1999 NEC Article 820 - Cable Requirements Within Buildings.


Notes: When the length of cable within the building does not exceed 50 feet (15.2 m) and the cable enters the building from outside and is terminated at a grounding block (inside the building), no cable requirements apply to the entry cable within the building. However, the ground block shall be located as close to the point of entry as practicable.


CATVP (Plenum)

Type CATVP, Plenum Cable shall be used in ducts, plenums and other spaces used for Environmental air.

Note: Types CATVP, CATVR or CATVX cables installed in compliance NEC Section 300-22 of the NEC.


CATVR (Riser)

Type CATVR, Riser cable shall be used in vertical shafts and from floor to floor in multistory buildings.

Note 1: In one-family and two-family buildings, CATV or CATVX cables may be used.

Note 2: In commercial and multifamily buildings, CATV or CATVX cables may be used if installed in metallic conduit or noncombustible tubing or if the vertical shaft is fireproof with fire stops between floors.


CATV (V-Rated)

Type CATV cable shall be suitable for general purpose use with the exception of Plenums and Risers.


CATVX (X-Rated)

Type CATVX cable, less than 0.375 inch in diameter shall be limited to use in residential dwellings (not commercial buildings) or where the cable is non-concealed and the internal length of the cable is less than ten feet.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

In addition, cable can be had with a CL2 listing also, if required by the AHJ.

One problem with this is that the cable may indeed be listed as above but it's not indicated on the jacket or even on the reel. Hopefully the cable model number is and also hopefully the inspector or AHJ will accept a copy of the manufacturer's specs for that cable model number that indicates the listing. To further complicate things there is coax with absolutely nothing printed on the jacket. I would assume that such cable meets the CATVX requirements but an inspector or AHJ may disagree and say it's only for use outside or limited to 50 feet within the building.

From the above though you can see that type CATVX is acceptable for a single family residence and assuming it's printed on the jacket you are OK there.

One final word- the coax patch panel. Don't bother because it's not done that way. And don't bother terminating the cables either. Ingress and leakage are big problems these days and no cable guy is going to trust a DIY installation. He's only going to cut your handi-work off and install new fittings. So my advice is to leave your cables at each jack location and the other ends in the basement. Be sure and leave more than adequate excess at each end in case the cable gets damaged or has to be moved. That's all you should do, let the cable guy handle the rest. Blank up your jack locations if you must to pass inspection until jacks get installed.

-Hal

Well, I knew I was going to get a response but this is great! Thanks all..

So now for the clarification I need..

Fletcher: "Low voltage boxes" is a little vague. If you are talking about something like this, note that they cannot be used in fire rated walls.

That is exactly what I am using. How do I know if my wall is "fire rated"? This is a basic two story house.

Fletcher: (you'd still need nailplates by code unless the conduit is EMT).

I think the builder will charge me a fee if I were to request a change to emt. What is a nailplate? How does it work, and will it inhibit being able to run wire from top to bottom?

hbiss: Thanks for the CATV info.

The good news is that I looked again at my RG6 and it indeed is CMR, printed right on the cable. SAme with the Cat6

EV606: Talks about red caulk, and firestoping smurf tube.

Does it have to be "red", or will normal white silicon work? How exactly do you firestop smurf tube. Do you mean caulk around where the tube goes through the top plate not the actual tube? If I don't use the smurf tube, I can simply caulk where the cable goes through the top plate?

Does "great stuff" count as firestop?

My builder has indicated on the plans for 3" pvc, caulked at the floors and capped on both ends.

Will caulking the chase in that attic and basement count as firestop?

I will have to take some pics as it gets done to show what I am doing.

Firecaulking is usually red, not always. This is what you need to look for. It's available at HD in the caulk section, probably around $13 a tube.

A nailplate protects the cable/conduit from nails/screws that are installed during construction. You only need these if the cable or conduit is closer than 1.25" to the stud edge. If you are centered in the top/bottom plates and keep the cable in the middle of the stud, you won't need them. Nail plates are metal rectangles of various sizes (2x4 up to 2x12") with 4 bent- in "teeth" on the corners. Installing them is simple: hammer them into the studs/plates where (if) the cable is too close to the edge.

How do you know if a wall is fire rated? Look at the blueprints. I don't do a lot of residential work, but I would imagine that kitchen and exterior walls are fire rated on both sides, as well as the garage wall, and any wall that has a fireplace. Local building codes may also list other walls as needing to be fire rated. Those LV nail on plates only come with a 1/2" or 5/8" face, and can't legally be used in a double sheetrocked wall: the box face can't be recessed more than 1/4", and has to be flush with the finished wall if the wall surface is flammable (like wooden paneling).

I do hotel work where almost everything is fire rated, so I always use closed-back boxes. They are not much more expensive than open back ones, and are better not just for fire, but for reduced sound transmission.

The problem with 3" PVC in a 2x4 is that you have to completely cut away all the wood to get the conduit in. If the walls are not perfectly aligned, the conduit will wind up slightly outside of the stud bays, which will be a problem come drywall time. Cutting out the entire top/bottom plate is also not good from a structural standpoint, and I'd bet that it's against building code. 2 or 3 1.5" EMT conduits would present none of these problems. This is not a major change order.

The other problem with a 3" pipe is that, unless it is very full, you would need firestop sticks to seal it. Great Stuff is a draft seal and, like all polyurethane foams, is highly flammable. It is not a firestop. Here's an article on firestop.

Jack

Fire wall ratings are not an issue in a single-family residence, even on walls with an attached garage. Standard boxes, rings or whatever you want to use are fine.

Nail plates are always required, regardless of conduit or cable type if there is less than 1.25" of clearance from the stud face.

Good to hear about the firewall ratings...

So now I can use the orange boxs. Good thing b/c I allready bought them.

All of the wall the 3" will run through have been changed to 2x6 construction to accomadate for the diameter.

How do you keep a bare coax or cat6 cable at least 1.25" from the stud face? Stud face being the face of the stud the drywall is screwed to? That seams impossible when the wire is dangling from the topplate all the way to the box.

Same questions goes if I were to use the smurf tube?

To coincide with ED comment my prints don't say anything about firerating walls.

So I re-read Fletchers post aagain...

So a nail plate is used where the the cable/conduit passed through a top/sole plate or stud?

It acts a aprotector so an installer can't drive a nail into the stud in a location where there is a hole and a wire in the stud. However. if the hole is less than 1.25" from the stud face it is not required. (front and back face)

Is that correct?

That is why Fletcher states that a 3" plastic conduit would require nailplate. Being that it only allows for 1" of clearance to the stud face. Even if center perfectly.

Correct?

So basicly I think I am in good shape. Use CMR rated cable, Use electrical conduit, not white pvc, Low voltage boxs are ok. Use firestopping caulk at top/soleplates, and firestop the 3" conduit at the openings with "putty".

Thanks again you all for the great help. I am probably more adventurous when it come to this stuff than most people. But with help like this I think I am in good hands.

So if I am wrong about any thing let me know before I hold up my construction because it dosn't pass code.

I would second the recommendation to go to several smaller conduits.. A single 3" may be fine for now, but if you want to expand in the future, it's a lot easier if you have a spare conduit or two to work with.

I would run at least three conduits, and leave at least one as a spare.

I agree that cat6 is overkill.. cat5e for data, and cat3 for phone is more than adequate. I tend to put at least two data jacks in each location, or 4 if I anticipate having two connections initially.

I agree with Ev about piping everything. it's worth it in the long run. Even if you don't anticipate putting a jack in that location, put a box and pipe so you can add one later.

I disagree with Hal on the coax patch panel. It's your house, and you have the right to make it conform to your standards. Do it right, use proper compression (snap-n-seal type) connectors, and make it clean. Any cable guy who whacks ends off my properly terminated cables is going to get a nasty call to his boss, and a bill for damages.

In fact, don't let the cable guy work on your wiring. Have him bring in his drop, and mount it where you specify, and take it from there. The cable guy will take the quickest route, and won't care how much of a mess he leaves you, how much space he takes, or how much of a pain he makes your life after he leaves.

Keep the phone, data, and coax terminal separate. It helps keep the overall clutter down.

Use a proper backboard, not one of these all-in-one panels that the builders are fond of, but that you will hate as soon as you try to work in it.

How do you keep a bare coax or cat6 cable at least 1.25" from the stud face? Stud face being the face of the stud the drywall is screwed to? That seams impossible when the wire is dangling from the topplate all the way to the box.

You don't dangle it unless you want it caught between the sheetrock and studs when the sheetrock is installed. You should be doing this after the electrician so look to see how he fastens his cables and do the same.

-Hal

I am going with the Cat6 to ready myself for the future. I anticipate 10gig to be coming around while I am living at this home and want to be ready for it. Thats the reason for the Cat6. I have worked with it before and do realize it is a little more of a pain to work with.

I am not sure if I can switch the conduit size at this point. I guess I can see if I can get two 2" instead for the same price. My delema comes from the fact that they will charge me a "change order fee" if I make any adjustments to things at this stage. (They just got done rough framing)

The plan is 2 cat6 and 1 coax to each box. I never thought about the smurf tube before. So I am still thinking about that. I think I would need quite alot as I ahve about 20 boxs.

The patch panels are std "high density", 48 ports in 2U space. I have a 42u chatsworth rack I am installing the patchs in. Roughly I will have 16 runs of coax going to it. I am placing the coax patch at the top. skipping 4-6Us down will be the cat6 patch.

You can bet I won't be letting Time Warner touch my stuff.

Nobody said anything about my interpretation of a nail plate, so I guess it is correct then???

Mostly correct and correct: "However. if the hole is less than 1.25" from the stud face it is not required". If the hole is greater than 1.25" from the stud face, nailplates are not required.

Conduits must be firestopped inside and out - that is, use caulk between the conduit and the framing, and between conduit and the cabling.

Cables can be secured to the studs by using insulated coax staples, which will also work on cat6. If you go with ENT, it must be secured every 3' per NEC 362.30A.

Jack

You can bet I won't be letting Time Warner touch my stuff.

While you do own your cabling the cable company is responsible for it. CATV is a lot more complex than most people realize and most DIY "projects" result in problems because of improper design and materials. Ingress is the most critical problem because it can shut down dozens of other customers who happen to share the same optical node with you. Then there is leakage and improper return signal levels.

Like I said, you own your wiring but if you cause any problems the cable company will disconect you unless you permit them to eliminate them. And I doubt many people have the test equipment or the knowledge to do it themselves. I suppose if they did they wouldn't have those problems to begin with.

-Hal

Just FYI but for Residential the minimum recommended cable type is Cat5e for both voice and data. Cable is cheap and going with Cat 3 anywhere in your home wouldnt make sense to me. Id run Cat5e and if the budget allowed Cat6. Just because you run Cat 6 doesnt mean you have to use all Cat 6 rated components at this time. You might start out with Cat5e components which are much cheaper and in the future if the need arises then you can swap out jacks and patch panels. But at least the cabling itself would be in place and if there was any area where you might need to convert a voice jack to data then youd be all set as the proper cable is allready in place.

Tito can you bring up that recommendation? I have looked all over the Texas codes and can't find it So that may be an Arkansas thing. Or maybe a local code for your area.

I would hate to mislead someone with information like that. Especially if it were to cost the customer more money than necessary.

**i could be wrong i have been before**

I know that BICCSI had suggested that residential installations now fall under 568, but that was in no way mandatory. I can assure you that no residential builders in this area are abiding by this guideline.

I have not heard of any AHJ mandating the type of cable or hardware that can be installed. All they care about are NEC requirements with regard to cable jacket ratings, fire-rated structure penetrations and proper firestopping.

I agree with what Hal said regarding cable TV. In most cases they will cut off whatever fittings/junk splitters are at the house. That being said, I've also seen some pretty bad work done by the cable companies. In my own work I use PPC or Snap N Seal compression fittings always, and quality splitters. I've never had a problem.

Just FYI but for Residential the minimum recommended cable type is Cat5e for both voice and data... Tito can you bring up that recommendation? I have looked all over the Texas codes and can't find it So that may be an Arkansas thing. Or maybe a local code for your area.

It's not in any code. It's only a recommendation from BICSI which doesn't have any legal weight.

I wouldn't put too much effort into hard wiring a residence for data with the way wireless is progressing anyway.

-Hal

In my own work I use PPC or Snap N Seal compression fittings

Hopefully you use the correct tool to compress them with. There are a lot of tools out there, most that I have seen used by those not in the cable industry are garbage. These are the same people who don't know how to (or have the proper tools) to prepare the cable for the connector. THAT'S why you can't trust a DIY connector.

-Hal

Yes, I have a compression tool that is adjustable for different brands of fittings. The stripper I have does the 1/4-1/4 strip for the fittings.

I am with Jeff. I allready got the Tohmas and betts fittings. and I have been using a black t and c tool. They make a really nice connector. I do know what you mean by they will cut them off. I know because they did it to me years ago. However, at that time I was using some garbage gold compression fittings. and a 900mhx splitter.

I know I am going to get drilled on this but in ignorance I bought a huge 16 way splitter. I bought is because I liked the layout of the connections. I intend to mount it on a 2U blank panel. Of course I would only use at most a third of the connections, and simply use the "caps" to terminiate the rest. I realize it gives me a 15db loss, and I am hoping that TW can just "turn it up" for me??? Otherwise I might go to an eight way splitter, but would rather not as I don't like the layouts I have found.

As for all the cat6 stuff I found this guy online who sells a cat6 rated jack super cheap. They are called tough jacks. They are cat6 but not really the most durable. They are probably only good for punching down a few times after that I think the "blade" from the tool would have put some rather large dents in the plastic. and I also got a cat 6 panel for about 50 I think. all in all I think I got some good deals. I don't notice any differance from that panel to the triplites we use at work.

Same here.

Jack

I have a compression tool that is adjustable for different brands of fittings.

And that is one of the tools I'm talking about. The correct tool will have a positive stop or throw that is factory calibrated for the fitting you are using. Different tool for different fitting, or at least a few different fittings. It CANNOT be user adjustable beyond the gauge that comes with it to maintain factory calibration.

"Universal" compression tools that know when to stop by how hard they are pushing on the fitting are junk. They will undercompress or over compress and there is no way to tell.

-Hal

Time Warner will probably provide you with an amplifier and an 8-way splitter upon request. Beyond 8 TVs they would probably give you two 8-way splitters. I am a firm believer in pulling lots of extra CAT5E everywhere for data, cameras, PoE devices or whatever. If you are considering whole house audio, you could select a central area for your receiver and speaker selector, and pull 16 gauge 2 conductor to possible speaker locations. Just a thought. Also, if you are remodeling and have access to the walls, you might consider pulling your home theater cables between your output device (TV) and components. (HDMI, component video, audio, CAT5E (data and future devices) etc.

You will find this information in TIA/EIA 570-A and the TDMM. I never mentioned any "code" so i'm not sure where that came from. The "recommended" cable type for residential is Cat5e. That is a standard and not a code. We in "Arkansas" do not use Cat3 anymore. The minimum cable rating we use is Cat5e. That is for voice and data. I love a good debate and most of the guys on here preach about holding everyone to a higher standard so i'd like to hear the arguments for Cat3 over Cat5e.

I love a good debate and most of the guys on here preach about holding everyone to a higher standard so i'd like to hear the arguments for Cat3 over Cat5e.

Wanna see my arthritic crippled hand that was partially caused by untwisting that !%$#? Some idiot runs it and I'm the one to have to punch it down on 66 blocks.

Nuff' said.

-Hal

Tito1411:

I'm not looking for a debate, but perhaps you can provide me with some advice with regard to 5E being the standard. I am hitting a dead end on a project I'm trying to bid.

Is there any chance that you can connect me with a supplier of 400 pair, 24 gauge, type PE89 construction CAT5E cable? I need to connect two buildings about 200 feet apart. We need to extend approximately 250 analog extensions at a hospital into new space across the parking lot to another building. We will have to bury it around the perimeter of the lot.

The architect has called for 5E. Despite the fact that 5E is supposedly the standard, I can't find the stuff anywhere. My suppliers look at me as if I have three eyes when I ask for such cable.

I'll also need to find protected entrance terminals (and associated plug-in protection modules) that are 5E rated. I can't find those either. I'd be willing to use four 100-pair units at each end if necessary. If I did this, I'd need CAT5E splicing hardware to convert between the 400 pair 5E cable to the individual 100 pair 5E terminals. I can't seem to find that stuff either.

What do you do in these situations? I've never been faced with these requirements before and apparently it is new to all of my suppliers.

The electrical contractor on this job says they can do it, but unless I can find this supposedly standard hardware, I can't bid.

I guess the only supply source for you Ed would be somewhere in Arkansas. :rofl:

Ed, I'd almost bet that converting to fiber and back to analog will be cheaper! John C.

Wow! So far jokes but no valid points other than its a pain to punch down? Ed, I thought we were having a discussion about residential cabling? You bring up a commercial application and a goofy one at that. In this situation I would contact the architect and discuss this with him. As far as I know theres no such cable or cable requirement. I would also contact an OSP expert and get their opinion and any backup documentation that I might need to show the architect. An addendum would probably be made and away we go. Or you could just not bid and move one to something else.

Let's keep this on topic. If you want a debate on CAT3 vs CAT5 start a new topic. Let's respect the original poster of this topic.

The "code thing came from me stating I can't find it in the "codes" I was reading through.

Bad choice of wording on my part. It also seems that I was the one to highjack the topic. So let me set this straight. Then we can start a new topic on C3 and C5E versus what ever.

Briggs: If TW does not supply the needed signal or a device to increase it. You can get the products on your own. All you need to do is a little math. That and if possible get a cable analyzer before you start purchasing things you do not need.

Even if you are close or inside the 1" mark. Do the nail plates anyway. It does not hurt anyone and you wont have to worry about some stray nail punching through all of your hard work.

Finally, be very weary of buying "cheap" products. We have several threads here about foreign made products not meeting standard. If you are going with C6 you should only have to terminate it once. So multiple terminations aren't a worry unless you connect it wrong. That brings up Hal's point. If the tool is designed specifically for the job. You would not have to worry about damaging the connector.

I would hardwire a residence for data if the user is looking at VoIP phones, and if the area has a high concentration of Access Points. The 2.4Ghz band is saturated in some areas surrounding college campuses. Ive seen noise floors higher than -50db(imagine if you will 28 independent access points in a 300' radius most of which were on 1,6,11). Don't forget also that an AP is connected to a switch, but the AP itself isn't a switch, it is just a hub. As more devices are connected efficiency drops off at higher data rates, this does nasty things to voice quality. 802.11n will help initially, but only because it is spreading the problem across the band and adding the 5.8Ghz band which is mostly empty except for cordless phones and the odd 802.11a system.

Thank you all for the great input. Thanks to your input didn't make the mistake of having PVC pipe chase installed. Also, I plan to buy the 10' lengths 3/4" smurf tube for all the wallplates, and use brackets every 3 feet. I think that will be a good idea for the future. I also know all about fireproofing, something I didn't even think about before.

You might look into a powered splitter. Blounder Tongue (Spelling?) makes several and it might lower the overall signal loss. With it being residential and probably over short lengths it might not matter anyway.

If only it were that simple. :rofl:

-Hal

I may be a little late here, but you may want to consider just running multiple (4-5) cat5 drop to ever tv location. Then centralize all of you cable/sat boxes in one spot, lets say the basement. Use the appropriate baluan to send your signal to your tv, then use in IR repeater to control everything. It may cost a bit more, but looks so much better when you are using flat screens hung on a wall. If you plan on using HDMI this gets a little $$$ but can still be done.

Hal could you explain a little about details of why it isn't so simple? I do have access to a coax db meter from work. I am not really sure what it is called but you can "change the channel" and see what the reading is. Could I use that to help make sure my install goes well? Oh, and my runs are from about 35' to 90' in length.

Mark

Anthony

That is a great idea, and trust me I have thought about doing that. However at this time I just don't have the time and money to get that tech. That is one of the reasons why I decided to install the electrical tubing to the wall plates, so later I could easily add wire.


Currently I don't own a Flat Screen, I am still working on my wife for that. So I am fine with the traditional setup. In the future though I want to put the cable box, and Home Theater PC, and receiver in the Den. (adjacent room) Wiring would be easy because it is so close.

I won't get into it but if anyone is interested in whole house systems check out LinuxMCE. It is really for a new topic though.

If your wife is like the wives of builder friends, she just wants the walls back up so she can decorate and invite friends over. That was always my mom's complaint anyway.

So tell her you need the TV to finish off the project, but only if you are about to finish off the project anyway.

Hal could you explain a little about details of why it isn't so simple? I do have access to a coax db meter from work. I am not really sure what it is called but you can "change the channel" and see what the reading is.

Not so simple because, to put it bluntly- you don't know anything about it. That meter you have at work is probably destined for the dumpster because it's analog, it doesn't properly measure digital modulated signals. Further, you have reverse levels to contend with and just throwing in splitters and an amplifier may take care of the forward levels but cause problems with the reverse. There are amps that do have gain in the reverse direction but that can be a very dangerious thing if you don't know what you are doing and have the proper tools. In essence, you are also transmitting back to the head end. Docis set top boxes and cable modems will negotiate the proper level but there is a window. If you disrupt the process by adding loses and gains that are not expected you risk losing your service or most importantly disrupting the service of many other subscribers on the optical node because your reverse signal overloads the RF to optical converter that is shared by everybody else.

So contrary to what you may think, what you do in your house can effect may other people on the system.

-Hal

Hal pretty much nailed it. As a cable tv guy for a living, I can tell you it doesn't take much to screw up a whole neighborhood. I have seen where someone strips back a cable and shoves it into an old tv without a fitting on it. It killed every modem and digital phone line we had in the whole node. Not a good thing. As far as your meter, unless it has been set up by the cable company for your local channel plan, its about worthless. With the digital boxes, channel 3 is not always channel 3. Most companies use SEMs now so they can actually put a bunch analog channels on one digital channel. Therefore channel 3 along with a few other channels may actually be coming into your digital box on channel 120. Best bet is to pull the cable and leave the rest to the properly trained people.

Thanks guys for the explanation. My main objective in the coax install is to make it somewhat clean. I have 16 runs of coax coming to one location. That is the reason I wanted to use the panel. I wanted to terminate them all there using Snap n Seal connectors and "F" barrels on a panel. Then use 18" jumpers from the panel to the splitter. Doing this would simply add one "F" barrel in each of the lines going from the splitter to the TV/modem/digital box. I can't believe that if the connections were done correctly that this would be detrimental to the overall performance. Would it???

Cable guys hate that stuff, despite the fact that I appreciate your efforts for a tidy installation. I tried this and it worked for years, but the guys from "es Comcastico" came in and blamed everything in the neighborhood on me.

Look closely here and you'll see what their solution was:



Of course, they ripped my stuff out and put in a standard 8-way splitter. It is hard to see in the picture, but the one white cable indicates the direction where the splitter is located as opposed to the original amplified splitter on the rack. Yep, it is just hanging in the breeze. The reported problem never went away, so I think I'm dealing with a fox/hen house situation.

By the way, the trouble reported was the loss of the TV Guide channel. Despite their repair efforts and three trips out, I found the problem out on my own. They had moved it from channel 2 to channel 100 in an effort to force customers to a higher rate tier and to rent converters in order to find out what is on TV.

I wanted to terminate them all there using Snap n Seal connectors and "F" barrels on a panel. Then use 18" jumpers from the panel to the splitter. Doing this would simply add one "F" barrel in each of the lines going from the splitter to the TV/modem/digital box. I can't believe that if the connections were done correctly that this would be detrimental to the overall performance. Would it???

You are not understanding me. Detrimental or not that's NOT what they want to see. It represents an unknown quantity. They DO NOT want to see work like that done by DIYs and will remove it if you want service. You also cannot have any jacks connected that are connected to something.

Do yourself a favor and just leave the cables hanging.

-Hal

A note about DIY cable: around 3pm yesterday, not one but 3 Cox bucket trucks were out on the pole near the house. They have been out before several times in the past weeks. I talked to one of the cable techs for a few minutes. I asked if the problem was in the "box", or in the aerial line. "Neither".

One of the other techs was trying to bet more money than the guy I was taking to that the problem was inside a residence. He said ~80% of their service calls are from bad DIY jobs or inside premise cabling, which can screw up service to numerous other customers.

Briggs, you're going to have two 8 way splitters, panel keystones and jumpers or not. Bypass the whole rack-for-coax idea. Besides what Hal has already said, 16 unnecessary coax keystones, an additional unloaded keystone patch panel, and 16 jumper cables are a waste of money.

Although the barrels connectors would have negligible loss if installed correctly, having more connection/splice points in any system is generally a bad idea. I'm not saying that can't be done correctly, I'm saying it shouldn't be done at all.

Jack

Technology points to Cat6 being leap-frogged. There are not terminating devices that can handle the extra throughput.

A better plan, IMO would be to do Cat5e and fiber.

Briggs, if you insist on doing it yourself, I would suggest you at least do research for a good RF amp. As Hal said, it is important that the amp has protection against overdriving on both directions. Here's a link:

ChannelVision

I've installed the CVT-15PIA and CVT-40BID in several locations, for TW, Cablevision and RCN subscribers. I've had no complaints from customers or providers.

Alternately, you could use this: CATV Hub

I've installed one of those recently (16-port). It is not cheap, but it works. You would also need the CATV Baluns II at the device end. The only thing this setup achieves is that it does away with coax, which may or may not suit you.