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Posted By: jeffmoss26 RS232 distance - 03/30/08 02:46 PM
Hey Guys-
On our Mackie DX8 sound systems, we have a program that runs on a computer so we can control all of the settings/levels. It uses a female DB9 connector and is RS232. I am wondering what the distance limitations are for this connection. I need some longer cables and I am not sure how long it can be without causing a problem.
Posted By: PMCook Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 03:56 PM
With high quality cable you can go as far as 50 feet without issues. Beyond that you will have problems at higher baud rates. Now in the old days we used short haul modems also known as line drivers. With them we could get some amazing performance often in excess of 1000 feet. You could use CAT5 with a line driver on each side. But if you go unconditioned, plan on 50 feet or less.
Posted By: tantivy Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 04:06 PM
The spacs for rs-232 say 50', but people have successfully used cable runs of a couple hundred feet. A lot of it depends on the speed, and the cable used.

If you need longer distances, try finding some line drivers that convert to/from rs422 or rs485, BlackBox is a well known source. Specs typically claim 115.2 up to 4kft.

BTW: it's a DE-9 (the second letter indicates the physical connector shell size.)
Posted By: jeffmoss26 Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 04:21 PM
It's definitely not that long of a run, less than 50 feet. I just want to be able to use my laptop outside the room where the rack is.
Posted By: MacOSX Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 05:52 PM
I have never had any instances where we'd use anything more than our 10'null modem cable, but I am interested in these line drivers... any links and or suggestions? (I see tantivy suggests BlackBox) I know nothing about this line driver at this point smile

Thanks!
Posted By: Silversam Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 06:55 PM
Tony -

I'm looking at a pair of Blackbox shorthaul modems part # VDE-0871-B.

We used to use them to extend serial printers and dumb terminals off the ACD. We'd have runs of a 1,000' without a problem.

Sam
Posted By: jeffmoss26 Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 07:00 PM
I couldn't find that in the Black Box website. A google search said it is a line driver.
Posted By: tantivy Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 07:08 PM
Line drivers are also known as short haul modems, and are basically modems designed for operation across dedicated pairs. Some use RS422 (balanced 4w), or RS485 (balanced 2w) for inter-modem communication, some use some other method.

Usable distance and speeds vary, generally you trade speed for distance. They are available as port powered, or externally powered versions.

With RS485, you can run them in a multipoint configuration, either to a multiplexer, or a terminal controller. They are commonly used for industrial controls, linking PLCs or other devices, but you used to see them in lots of other situations, such as travel agents, or library terminals, where there were a lot of terminals multiplexed into a single leased-line modem.

Stanford used to have this box called a Gandalf switch, which fed 4w circuits across the campus, allowing connections to a number of devices, including the campus mainframes, and a central terminal server pool. Before the proliferation of PC's, there used to be terminals in every office, all connected to the Gandalf switch. Some departments (EE. CS. etc) had LAN's with local terminal servers. but some places only had a single terminal for a department administrator.

There were two versions of these line drivers, one was externally powered, and had a thumbwheel switch, which allowed the user to select a specific system to connect to. The other was a port powered unit about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and the user selected the system via a menu once the port was activated. The port powered drivers appear to be RS422 based, and they work just fine when wired back to back. I have used them at 9600bps over a 10kft loop.

Speaking of modems, if you have a pair of modems that can be set to operate without dialtone, you may be able to use them over a limited distance over a dry pair. The configuration can be a bit tricky, since you don't have ring voltage, but it does work. You basically have to set one end to answer mode, go offhook, and no timeout.

I have used a USR Sportster to communicate with an Apple Airport over 150' of dry pair. The Airport was running PicoBSD unix, using the modem port as the console.
Posted By: tantivy Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 07:08 PM
duplicate post.
Posted By: tantivy Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 07:22 PM
look for Black Box part numbers:
ME800A-PLUS-R2
ME800A-R3
ME755A
ME890A
ME6100A
ME6101A
ME6102A
ME795A
ME796A
ME1791A
ME1794A
ME1721A
ME1821A
ME1862A
ME1863A
ME790A
ME792A
ME794A
ME775A
ME776A
ME777A
ME3000A
ME3001A
ME3002A
ME3003A

These are all point-point async rs232<->copper short haul modems. there are also multidrop, wireless, and fiber versions..
Posted By: Silversam Re: RS232 distance - 03/30/08 11:47 PM
Jeff -

I'm not surprised you can't find it. It's got to be at least 12 years old.

Sam
Posted By: nfcphoneman Re: RS232 distance - 03/31/08 04:01 AM
The specs are 50'. But, years ago we put in hundreds (if not thousands) that were more than 50' with no problems.

If you really want to get fancy you can install a serial to ethernet converter.
Posted By: jeffmoss26 Re: RS232 distance - 03/31/08 05:35 AM
Another thing I thought about doing was taking a standard cat 5 patch cable and putting DB9 adapters on both ends...I will just have my boss get me a 25 foot serial cable and call it a day :p
Posted By: sph Re: RS232 distance - 03/31/08 08:49 AM
The 25-foot serial cable should work. Keep in mind that there are several implementations of RS232. I would try to find out from the equipment maker the distance limits for their port. Also, make sure it IS an rs232 port and not some custom pinning/signaling thing whose connection will disappear after say, X feet.
Posted By: tantivy Re: RS232 distance - 03/31/08 01:16 PM
Jeff.. Are you sure about the model number? I don't find a DX8 on the Mackie site. Oh.. never mind, it's on the EAW commercial side..

It does say that it is an RS232 port, but does not give any information about speed, handshaking, etc.
Posted By: jeffmoss26 Re: RS232 distance - 03/31/08 01:57 PM
Yes, it is now an EAW product. I'm going to call them tomorrow and find out more.
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