Does any one know where I can get a copy of Hilton Hotels wiring standards for voice and data? I am bidding on wiring a hotel and the blue prints refer to the "voice and data wiring standards for Hilton Hotels".

There is a 800 teck number for Hilton to track troubles and fix telecom problems. I think I have it at work. They could probably guide you to the specs. I'll try an PM you tomorrow with it.

That's a spec that should be part of the bid documents along with the prints. You certainly can't be expected to bid without a copy of the specs or you would be really stupid if you did. Wherever you got the prints from should have a copy. Sounds like an EC is not being straight with you.

-Hal

PM me with your email address. I have the entire pdf.

No. The specs are supposed to be provided with the drawings. That is what you are basing your bid on. That way if there is any dispute you can hand them what was given to you. If they won't provide them pass on the job. If you want to be stupid and base your bid on something you obtained elsewhere I guess that's your call. Just don't be surprised if you lose your shirt when you find out they have been revised 2 months before this job and what you based your bid on is innacurate.

-Hal

I've been down this path before. Believe me, you want to have the latest info directly from Hilton, as they will grant the final approval on the cabling since they will be providing guestroom HSIA and admin data and voice circuits. Most of the time the Hilton spec's exceed what the EC proposes since they try to get by as cheaply as possible with a design/build bid. They have websites for the franchise standards tailored to the specific brand of hotel as well as a general tech standards manual that encompasses all of their brands.

I'd like to see that. Can you provide a link? Thanks

www.hiltonfranchise.com
www.embassyfranchise.com
www.hamptonfranchise.com
www.homewoodfranchise.com
www.doubletreefranchise.com
www.hiltongardeninnfranchise.com

Click on design and construction standards and then go to standards manuals.

They also give detailed telephone standards tailored to each specific brand.

You can follow the links to contact someone at Hilton for login credentials.

Thanks for the Info. I called and got a login from them and got the info I needed. I told the GC that I needed the info from them and he did not know what I was talking about! He contacted the owner and they did not know they needed the standards. I asked the GC if he had even read the blue print notes and he had not even looked at the voice, data and video drawings and notes. He said he usually left that up to his electricians. This is apparantly the first time they have used a telecom contractor for the vdv wiring!!! They usually just use their electrician. I don't see how some of these GC's don't lose their proverbial pants on these jobs when they don't understand the importance of the telecom installation.

Glad you were able to find the information you were looking for. It is unfortunate some would rather call you stupid, instead of helping.

Didn't say he couldn't find the information, I just don't like where it comes from. I've been in this business way too long and also the electrical business not to know how things work or to cover my ass.

Unfortunately some here like to characterize advice that is critical or negative as unhelpful or even rude. I'm not here to give people a warm and fuzzy feeling. If someone asks a question I'm going to give them the benefit of my knowledge and experience and if that doesn't happen to agree with what you want to hear or your opinion well, I can't help that.

-Hal

I'll be sure to refrain from offering advice in future posts, even though by some odd quirk it turned out to be helpful. Dude, you're way too angry at the world.

Dude, you're way too angry at the world.

Angry? Nahh. I just like to think I've been around the block a few more times than some people and know what to watch out for before it gets me.

-Hal

Sorry, Dude, but those of us who have been in this industry have made similar mistakes by having made assumptions. We are trying to help others from making the same "stupid" mistakes that we made. The very same thing that our parents preached to us as children. That's why we are here. We aren't looking for an argument, we are looking to protect others from making the same mistakes that we did.

Many members here have been in the contracting business for decades and have been badly-burned due to our "stupid" assumptions. When dealing with general contractors on major projects, they are riddled with potential lawsuit material. There are millions of dollars involved and rest assured, if you make a mistake, they are going to get money from you. That's how large construction works: There is no "I'll cover it" if you scratch a wall like there is in residential or small commercial work.

Everything from failure to complete in phased stages to a scratch on a wall to dirt on the carpet will be held against you. You are not just bidding on pulling, terminating and testing cable. You need to include time for attending construction meetings, schmoozing the superintendent, the list goes on..........Projects of this magnitude need to be taken VERY seriously with NO assumptions whatsoever. A simple mistake can put a small contractor out of business. Bidding on something like this without a lawyer's blessing is potential suicide.

So, on that note, I will assume responsibility in this thread for anyone having been construed as "being way too angry at the world".

By the way, I would recommend against referring to anyone on a project of this nature as "dude".

"DUDE" Who's the angry one, I appreciate Hals straight forward comments,But "DUDE", that is a bit much.Respect is earned here.When you've been in this industry 30 + years ,see how you like being adressed as Dude.

Ok. I think enough has been mentioned here regarding a member's complete lack of respect and understanding of one of this board's "straightest-shooters".

(back to the topic-)


Edited to revise:

TTSI1,
Can you please elaborate in regards to your second post in this thread? Like Hal explained, how can you place a bid that will adhere to specifications which are not being provided directly with the blueprints? (or are we missing something? It seem's like something's not right here.) Like Ed says, it's worthy to have this reviewed and blessed by an attorney, to avoid any potential disasters.

Dude, If your gonna try to play ball in the big league it is recommended you get information from reliable sources. Learn to respect knowledge when it comes fast and in a few words. Go back and look things over. I don't think you will find anyone was ever called stupid. You will find a circumstance that would be stupid.

In here advice will come from many sources. You choose the advice you prefer.

Play Ball!!

Well isn't this fun.

Hals use of the word stupid struck me as being harsh, but thats the Hal I've come to know. Take em or leave em. I lean toward taking his advice on these matters. Get the specs from Hilton in writing.

Use of the word dude can be taken as either a term of friendship or as a pejorative. Not anything to get too upset about.

Richard

I would rather get a straight answer, then BS even if I don't agree or like the answer.

I have learned over the years that some don't understand the true meaning of advice. Both those giving it and those receiving it. As for me I take the advice offered I dump it in the hopper with my 23 years of experience and then I act accordingly. As I am not an avid typer, there are sometimes things that I know about a situation that are too lengthy to include here. So although my actions or lack thereof may seem ludicris to some, I can assure you that I have weighed the consequences of my actions carefully. I am also aware, after 23 years, that being in business for oneself sometimes requires a certain amount of risk. Be assured that I appreciate the input and advice of all who have been kind enough to reply. I can only hope that none here take offense to the fact that I may not agree or take their view and apply it to my situation verbatim.

I must say that I too appreciate a straight answer but that is not to say that the poster should not use some amount of tact and respect for others opinions. If I find offense with someone who has posted I will attempt to politely ignore the offense and still consider the advice given. I realize that not all are gifted with the gifts of tact and respect.

I would also say that having only been around this board a short time but reading the posts of others I have seen a great deal of wisdom represented here. I have often said that "a day that goes by that I don't learn something new is a wasted day", and I try to live my life and run my business in that manner. I have used this board to mostly ask questions but I hope that as time goes on I may be able to impart some of the wisdom I have gained in my 23 years of experience to others here.

In answer to Mikes question:
I am the kind of person who does not like to ask a GC a question unless I have some idea what the potential answers might be, so I came here to gain some possible insight and then I went to the GC to point out that I did not have all of the info I needed to quote the job. I had already gotten the copy of the latest Hilton Hotels standards manual (thanks to Pointdexter) so I knew what I was expecting to get from him. I told him I could not quote the job until he got me the standards that were refered to in the prints.

By the time he got back to me with the answer I already had studied them and could talk about them intelligently. He sent me the standards officially but I was ahead of the game because I had already incorporated them into my bid response and had saved myself some time.

The standards refered to by Pointdexter are from the official Hilton Corporate website and according to the person I talked to at Hilton Corporate they are the latest revision that is being required of all franchisees building new or renovating a Hilton or subsidiary property. I probably saved the franchisee and the GC's collective butts since they have been using an unqualified electrician who knows nothing about telecom to do their work previously.

So, again, thanks for the advice from all and for looking out for me. Gosh knows I make plenty of mistakes and I need all the help I can get. It is great to be able to come here and see people genuinely interested in others success, regardless of differing opinions.

By the way, I do have an attorney on retainer who specializes in business law that I refer to often. I, too, have "been around the block a few times" and had the seat of my pants (and several layers of flesh) torn off because I did it on my butt. My attorney is now my cushion.

I am impressed with your reply and want you to rest assured that we are only offering suggestions on a constructive basis. I grew up in Raleigh and to this day, know that it is a town that is chock-full of lawyers. That's why I was so abrasive with my reply to your situation. It seems as if you have your ducks in a row, so you should be good to go.

We may go a bit above and beyond with our responses, but only in an effort to keep others from making the same mistakes we have made in the past.