Hey everyone!

I am running some Cat3 across a building, into a cooler with doors. (Like the ones you see at the supermarkets/grocery stores.) There are two coolers, an older (25 years) one which is smaller, and a larger one which was wedged right up next to the old one. I am trying to get that cable into the cooler next to an already existing hole for the alarm, the problem I am having is that because they are so close and they are so thick (the sides are layered: metal, insulation, wood, insulation, metal) I can't drill through and pull a fish tape/wire in, everything just gets lost. The alarm wire is visible from the cieling and I can just barely see the hole it goes into which is really small above the cooler.

If anyone has any ideas on how to get that small two-pair Cat3 into the cooler, please post them. Even if they don't seem practicle since this isn't a normal pull.

Thanks a bunch.

Do you have a bell-hanger/installer bit? I would think you should be able to get one that's good for wood and metal, and long enough to go through all the layers of the cooler.

I don't have a bell installer bit. I have a case of wood/metal/and concrete bits for my drill, and none of those would clear it through to get me on the other side. I can see the insulation pushed through the other side (on the cieling of the cooler) but that's it. Can't find the hole, just the outlying insulation.

Topher, do you want to borrow a bell hanger bit? I have 1/4" and 1/2" by 18". I also have the 12-inch "B" plastic tubes that fit a 1/2" hole that will protect the wire from sharp edges through up to a 12" wall. You can use one of these tubes from either side to keep the metal walls from compromising the cable. I will send you this stuff on Monday morning if you are willing to pay for shipping charges and return the bits when you are done.

I'm not too sure if the bell bit would help, I have some really long bits, and they get through the wall (I think) It's just getting the wire into that hole after it's drilled... Once I move the insulation away from the hole, I can't find it!

topher,
If you are getting your drill through, go to an auto parts store and get brake tubing or whatever size tube will fit your wire to insert into the hole, slide the wire in and either leave the pipe in place or slide it out over the wire to reuse. That is the poor man's tube Ed mentioned.

SBC used to issue these metal tubes for thick areas like drilling the floor of a mobile home so we didn't have to cut holes in the underlining.

you can pick up brass tubing in the hobby section of the hardware store or a hobby shop.

I used to use that for fishing wire through the insalation in the floors on mobile homes . like kld said .

this got me thinking about why I dont use the tubing anymore .

tubing is the cheapest but heres a couple of tools that I now carry that would probably do the job .


and/or
https://www.lsdinc.com/cgi-local/se...te=templatekk2.html&output_number=20

a excuse to buy new tools is alwasy good

no ?

Never heard of the tube things, I'll have to look them up. Not seeing what you have makes it a little hard. If there's an alarm wire already there use it for a pull wire and pull a string with you to pull the alarm back. A splice in an alarm wire isn't going to hurt anything.

Ooops, my error. I was thinking of the metal ones. The tubes Ed is talking about were originally a white plastic (Bakelite?)or ceramic and were used for entry into a house for overhead drops when they still used cloth covered drop wire. They had a rolled lip on one end to smooth the entry. They come in handy for brick, concrete, or metal building entrances. With the SNI now outside and normally buried, they are seldom seen anymore.

If you didn't use the tube you were supposed to wrap three layers of tape around the drop to keep it from wearing through. This was below the strain relief and the entrance.

This has turned into a trivia thread. Sorry.

justbill: I have thought of that already, but the hole for the alarm wire is seperate, and is really small. They caulked the alarm wire into place so the cold air wouldn't escape. I think the alarm sounds when you remove any of it's components anyway.

Added: I was thinking maybe some of those fiberglass fish tape reels. Might see about getting one on tuesday. I have a thick coat hanger now, I'm going to try and get it through, If I can see it, I need to get tape (or brake tubing like KLD said) and see if I can get it out of the crevise and up into the cieling.

If you're doing this is a supermarket, see if they have a cardboard baler on site. The bales need a wire wrap after they're compressed, so there's always a pile of them near the baler. These wires are generally 4 or 5 feet long, and work great for fishing cables, especally in coolers as I've discovered myself.

OK Ken, now I know which tubes your all talking about, the trailer floor thing through me.

Ed's entrance tubes are the white ones ----

The metal tubes were about a foot long, fit inside a 1/4" drilled hole, and you fed the IW (Inside Wire, Jeff) through it so it didn't disappear inside the wall. These were issued after the 22 ga. wire showed up. The older 19 ga. was stiff enough to stay straight. Once the wire was through the wall, you slipped the tube off the wire and away you go. (Don't forget and staple the IW around the corner and come back only to see the tube still sticking out!)

When the thick insulation in trailer house floors started showing up the 12" metal tubes weren't long enough as well as the standard SWBT issue 1/4" drill bit. Went to the electrical supply house, ordered 24" bell hanger bits and went to the auto parts store and got steel brake line. Boss wrote off the tickets, I was doing six to eight trailers a day at that time, a new trailer park had just opened, so I guess he thought it was worth it.

Update: As of today while I sit here on site, I have the hole drilled through, I can point a flashlight inside the cooler and see the light through the metal siding. I can't get anything fished through, and I don't think tubing is going to work. The wire has to go down into a crack thats not even 1/4" and down 5", then into the 2.5" thick wall, and out into the cooler.

I will let you know if I get this figured out...*sigh*

vertical to horizontal? That's what it sounds like your doing. From the top take a wire and on the end of the wire loop tie a bunch of string loops. What I do is take about a 3 or 4 foot piece and fold it back and forth about 8-10" long, just tie it to a loop in your wire so you have several inches hanging down on each side of the wire, which would mean 4 or 5 " on each side. Doesn't matter if it's more, but I wouldn't go any less. Push it down past the hole, than pull it back so only the string is hanging at the level of the hole. Now go to the horizontal hole and use a fish wire to grab the string, you have a lot better chance of catching the string this way then having just one piece of string and a weight. This works well in insulated walls also. If I'm following you this should work. 1/4 inch isn't much, but I've fished narrow opening before this way.

mind if i ask why you need a cat 3 cable inside a cooler

The fiber-glass push-pull rods are great for getting thru a really thick wall that may have a "void" in in, but, I also keep some "tie wire" ( you know, the stuff that hangs ceiling grid's? ) handy in my vehicle as we only have the one set of rod's.


This stuff is really flexible & can be bent easier than a "coat-hanger".

Another purpose I use it for is when you think you took out the right ceiling tile only to find to can't reach the cable...

Hey Jeff, sometimes we have to install phones & paging horns in these things!

We once had an account that was a "sub-zero" storage facility & the warehouse was huge! I hated going out there to troubleshoot a Valcom horn not working. Seriously, it was like 60F below in there, had to wear one of there "snowsuit's" to go in there!

Yep, Cat3 for voice Mr. Jeff! (it's a walk-in cooler...)

Push a ball chain through on one side and a magnet in the other if you can see the light this shouldn't be to hard

You can buy a 4 foot flexible drill bit at an electrical supply store, it will have a hole in the bit end to put a string through which you can then pull back through your drilled hole. You can also cut the flex bit down to any length you want to make it easier to manage. The drill part is only about 2 inches long, the rest is a flexible shaft
MArk

Most bell hanger bits have a hole in them just behind the cutting end. Purpose is for situations like yours. Drill your hole and leave the bit in the hole sticking out the other side. Go around and stick a piece of #22 wire through the hole, twist it in the flutes and twist it together so it won't pull off. Now go back to your drill and WITHOUT turning it on just pull the bit and wire back through. Now you have a drag line for your wire.

As for the way you are trying to do it, it is very unlikely that you will be able to just drill the hole and stick the wire through. It's too flexible and not straight so unless you like frustration don't even try. If you don't do the wire through the bit trick above you will have to use a piece of 1/8" fish tape or stiff wire, (something like ceiling hanger wire or bailing wire works good) at least long enough to go through the wall. Put the wire in the hole and patiently probe for the other side.

This is called fishing and anybody installing wiring needs to have the expertise and simple "tools" to get wiring through holes and wall spaces.

-Hal

Sounds to me like he's coming down between the two units (the 1/4" space) and has drilled a horizontial hole into that 1/4" vertical space, at least that's the way I took it.

That's the way it is justbill. I have equip/knowledge on fishing wires, but here's how this one is:
I have drilled a hole horizontally through the cooler wall. To get the wire into the hole, I have to go outside the cooler, take apart the drop-down cieling, get above the cooler, and look at where the two coolers are wedged together. It is less than 1/4" between the coolers.

So the wire needs to go Down 5" through the 1/4" gap, then horizontally 5-6" into the cooler.

I am working on a few things. The gap isn't big enough and fish tape isn't flexible enough to get it through the gap after the horizontal break.

I am going to try justbill's string technique, then tie some metal barbs to some fishing line and see if I can get it out of the gap magnetically.

Thanks for the help. I am going back tuesday to work on it.

Kris, here's what I would try:

From inside the cooler, take the chuck end of the bell hanger bit (or a glowrod) and put a piece of fishing line through the hole in the bit. Push the end with the string through the hole as far as you can and then bring the bit back in just a tad creating a small loop on the line. If possible, push more of the line through the hole to make a bigger loop.

From up top, take a piece of #12 solid, strip off the end and make a hook. Use that to "fish" for your string.

Actually, I would proabaly just drill through the top of the cooler and run the wire that way. Would that be possible?

-Larry

The other way ‘round might be easier… Dangle the ball and/or fixture chain down between the two coolers… Stick a telescoping pen magnet through you horizontal hole to grab it.

Okay, I'll try those ideas today to see if I can pull anything through.

Hopefully a magnet will work since the magnet will stick to the walls too.

Well ok I see what you are up against now. The tubing trick above would make this easier. Put a piece of tubing through the wall then push a piece of something like #24 wire through it. I would try to put a loop on the end so you can hook it. Then go outside and with a fish tape with a small hook on the end try to hook it.

Ya know, this brings up another point too. Sounds like you are trying to do this by yourself. I always like to have a helper to handle one end, you do the other. If you can't yell use radios or Nextels. Sometimes it almost impossible to do stuff like this by yourself or you waste so much time it's not worth it.

-Hal

I have had someone helping me on the last couple tries, and with two of us, if my partner shines a flashlight into the hole inside the cooler, i can see a small light beam through the cieling. I found a 12" drill bit that I'm going to try and get that hole a little bigger.

I have taken my smaller bit sets down to the drill shaft, so I should be able to get a bigger hole in there now.

How big is the hole? if it's big enough, try this.

take a piece of #14, and make a loop at the end. push this from inside until the loop pokes into the void. strip the jacket off a couple feet of your cable, and see if you can thread the needle, and pull the loop in.

goog luck..

WELL, what worked!!!
NO more posting so something must have worked.
How gets the prize !!

I got a smaller drill bit, got through yet another layer of metal that I thought I was already through, and the hole happened to be within reach It was slanted up, i pushed the Cat3 right through and pull it through the other side. Worked like a champ.

I got through with a 3/8" drill bit. Anything bigger than 3/8 didn't work.

Use the alarm wires as a drag to pull in your wires and new alarm wires. Get permission from the alarm guy, obviously.

Sometimes the new alarm wires can be smaller to make the job even easier.