What I naively thought was a bonehead way to install cables seems to be the standard practice for some of you guys, so I thought I would ask for a quick survey.

Question #1
Do you mark cables as you are installing them with a cable number or do you wait to identify cables until the end of the installation?

Question #2
If you mark cables during the installation, how do you mark them?

We used to tone everything out, but when you get 300 cables its kind of a mess. Since I work alone most of the time now I label them with a sharpie. Its alot easier than running back and forth all of the time.

Ditto, mark um as I go, saves time.

Seldom mark cables if I do its with electrcal tape or sharpie I also work alone most of the time and found it a worth while investment for moduler testers so I can tone/test several cables at a time.

Same way as Merritt, I work alone most of the time and do mainly smaller jobs. I can map out up to 20 jacks at a clip. Plug the remote into the jack then stand back at the panel and lable them at that point, works out well and sames me some time and a lot of effort of running back and forth.

work alone most of the time , usually dont mark but do every once in while to see what im missing .

I find it much more effeciant to pull terminate and then label .

like I mentioned in the other thread the datalite helps a lot
https://www.tecratools.com/pages/datacom/37600.html

I mark cable in groups depending on what works with colred tape , one side of bldg bundled green other side red or broke down further by quainity vs bldg layout

I use colored electrical tape when pulling multiple cables of the same color, which is pretty much all the time. Since I like to pull everything before terminating, I label the station end with a labelmaker after the pull, and the closet end with a Sharpie. I was labeling both ends with the labelmaker, but the closet end label was always cut off during termination. I could remove and reposition the label, but a Sharpie is much faster.

The colored tape method gets a bit ridiculous when you're pulling 8 cables at a time and only have 3 rolls of tape.

"Let's see - blue/yellow/purple will be cable #38."

I put the number of the cable on the box(or reel), mark the cable with that number....pull the cable, write the number on the cable...cut

same as capitol..

I'm with Skip - don't mark cables when pulling, but use white for voice and blue for data, even though they're all cat-5 going on a patch panel. Terminate the wall plates, terminate the patch panel. Work with a partner and walkie talkies and the Data-Lites. It lights up, call out the number. Swap the light's power source for the tester dongle, and print out the label while the other guy pulls out the light and tests. We fly through testing and labeling. Give the customer an as-built, and an Excel spreadsheet of Room-Jack-Port-ID sorted both ways.

I always mark. I suppose if you are only pulling a few it would be ok not to.

I normally work alone so I always use wire markers.
I also have multiple boxes or reels on the go at the same time.

The 3M brand wire numbers are the best. They are a cloth type with really good adhesive. The book comes in either #'s 1-45 or 45-90. Each page in the book has two long stickers and one single digit. I stick one on the wire end, the other on the plastic spout on the box or reel until I cut it, then transfer it over to the wire. The single can be stuck on the face plate, patch panel, or the floor plans.

With security, I draw a rough map of the place and mark on the drawing where all the devices are. I then stick the single digit marker on the drawing for each location and place it in the alarm panel box.

I always label as I go, I use white tape write a number on the cable and mark my prints. I have toned out too many times and find that it takes too long, one man show. Doing a CDN Tire for CCTV marking all the coax and power cables. Bought one of those fancy labeler that does shrink tube and putting a red label on all the wires, stands out nice.

Always label using a sharpie.

Always label using a sharpie.

Same as Matt above

Always pull with multiple reels,use same color cable. label ends with sharpie,always use left to right count on reels any job. In telco rm bundle cables in groups of 6, tape with white tape at eye level mark 1-6, 7-12,etc. Leave plenty of slack, This helps me at punch time either on wall or rack, easy to dress out, no bending over to find cable numbers. Mark floor plan as i go, Label wall ends and terminate at same time ,I normally cable from longest drops first and work back to telco rm.,use up short reels at drops near closet,very little waste. test with 2 people-----John

Same as capitol

same as capitol

Same as Capitol for me.

I learned from an old-timer that it's best to NOT label the cables and to tone out them as part of the testing. His rationale was so that the cable bundles at the MDF could be super-neatly laced in and I agree on that part. You didn't have to worry about which cable went where, you just laced them in perfectly so the job looks sweet. He tested us by having us run one cable of a different color and place it in the bundle as a "racing stripe" to show how perfectly-aligned the cables in the bundle were.

True, this usually means that jack numbers end up scattered all over the place, but still, if everything is labeled and tested properly, it shouldn't be an issue.

I do mark both ends on tiny jobs with a sharpie just to save a step, but on large jobs, it seems as if the old-timer's way has been the best way to go for me.

I have a problem with that theory of punch and tone.

Although it works from a neatness stand point it kills a numbering scheme at the far end.

But to each his own.

I have to agree, Wrichey. I like the ordered approach as well.

I cant stand to find a 66 block marked cab3 then cab12 then cab4 ect. I also stroke out when room 1 has cable 1 and room 2 to cable 9. I have a car dealer that was cabled with the punch and tone method dual cat5e V3/D92 next cube V41/D6.
Capitol has the right idea and looks like several others do the same so do I. As far as lacing in I go back to the days of wax string, now tiewraps and velcro,I will put my work up against any, but none of it matters when the next guy comes in to run a cable its never laced in anyways.

I have a captive client -- I am the guy who will be out to find and fix in ten years. I like to have the cable numbers in order both in the terminal room and on the floor.

Steve:

I think that my description wasn't clear. We still labeled the blocks in proper numeric order. I would also gag at random numbering on blocks. We weren't allowed to have a single cable cross over another in bundles as large as 6". If we did, the boss cut all of the lacing and made us start over.

I agree with everyone about the station end numbering being a crap shoot, but we just had such a high level of expectation for neatness by the old boss that it was the only way it was done. Bear in mind, these were giant jobs, easily 300-400 cables per closet and many closets per floor.

I still think that a properly-labeled final installation is what it's all about. As long as the customer's IT person (key word) can see the numbers at both ends, I seriously doubt that they will even notice that cubicle A's data cable is a hundred off from cubicle B's.

You aren't kidding about the guy who comes in afterward lacing the additional cable into the bundle.

It is cheaper to land the wiring at the block, number the block sequentially, and who cares that Rm 1 is Jk 1? Have done it that way, and guess what? Yep, the next outlet ruined the whole thing by not being RM 100 and JK 100! And it took a lot longer.

Now, if you need it that way --- buy speed pull cable so you can drop it all at one time.

Yes, I try to match the PP and 66 Block numbers in one outlet, but only when there are very few --- again it is a time issue.

Just my way.

KLD

Although it works from a neatness stand point it kills a numbering scheme at the far end.

You don't understand. You install the jacks first and as you do you number them according to the drawings,the plan or your numbering scheme. They are always numbered in order. THEN you tone each and punch the other end down in that order on the blocks or the patch panel.

Don't know how I can make it any clearer... tagging or toning, the results are the same.

-Hal

I used to tag as I pulled the cable in. Now, I find it easier and faster to terminate everything, tone, test and label. I find it easier to lay the cable out at the MDF and let the cable bundle determine where the cable lies. This way you don't have to weave the cable to get it lay straight. And since I'm going to test the cable any way; the testing gets done when toning the cable. Who cares if the cable numbers don't run in clockwise order around the building the phone extensions will. Your label scheme will tell you what closet and panel the cable runs to.

I can't see paying someone to stand around with a toner waiting for me to find the cable, lace it down to the patch panel or block, and then terminate it before they can move on to the next jack. Pay him to run around terminating the jacks while I terminate the backboard. Then have him tone, I'll locate it in the sequentially numbered blocks or PP ports, tell which one it is so he can label the jack, and we'll test it while the label is printing.

I can be toning 8 cables and 8 test modules at same time. Just tone, terminate, label,test move to next set of jacks. It may not last but I like to keep everything in order for new install plus it looks better on the wire map.

One that I found conveinent is if you have different departments, and you want the exts. in order by dept. use elect. tape. Like Office is Red, Warehouse is Blue, Retail is Green, and Mailing is Yellow. Makes keeping track of those cables pretty easy.

Then, use a sharpie or Dymo label maker to stick a number or alpha-code on the cable itself. Data and Voice, (type)-(location)-(cable number) [V-O-8]. If I have analog and digital voice, I'll use *A* or *D* on the end of my label.

It may seem like it would take forever to do, but I can push F4 on my label maker and it gives me a quick-add template.

I always label or tag the cables before I pull them, it's looks good to have the jacks in numerical order; makes for a good wire map. Also on the data side, coming into an IDF or MDF, I always have the cables rapped around each other to help prevent cross talk. It doesn't look professional, but technically it is professional and I always explain the reason to the customer.

I usually sharpie the cable and box as I'm pulling it and sharpie the inside of the wall box on the far end. Later, after the sheetrockers and painters have covered the cables, you can still scrape it off the box when you terminate. Number sequentially around the building, any cables run afterwards are given the next number on the patch panel.

We always mark the cables as we pull them.

Once I installed a system for a large national retail store where the local cabling contractor just "pulled 'em, punched 'em and toned 'em".

What a mess!

The cables did not go in any logical order. It takes forever to cross-connect 60+ phones when the cable numbers are all over the place on the MDF.

With a blueprint labeled, there should be no problem.

We pull, terminate, tone, test, label (mark print).

I've done it both ways, but as soon as you add 1 additional jack, the voice1 data1 thing goes to he**. It takes longer to setup and is quickly made unnecessary. Just my humble opinion.

I agree with most of you. I often work alone and work with a handfull to 100's of cables. We have always numbered the cables while pulling. If there are any changes or add-on's, they just get added to the end or last number. Certification will go a he** of a lot faster if you can keep your cables in order.

Always number the cable. Usually with a sharpie. Some customers have asked me to label with a label maker.

If you don't you create the kind of headache I am dealing with right now for a non-profit (see thread in Installers) Numbering also helps me mentally. I can keep track of where I am in the project. Pulling cable kind of gets monotonous and knowing you only have 128 runs to go helps.

Corwyn

For me it depends on the size of the job, small jobs, say under 20-30 runs I label. If the cable plant is to be very large, I tone & test, labeling my blocks in order.
What alot of people do is under-estimate the importance of documentation & records...

I used to only pull cables. Now I mosly do telephone service (at a new company) while someone else does the cable pulling. They number the 66 blocks out of order. Drives me crazy!

I recommended pre-labling. He doesn't like that menthod. He Yanks the cables and tones after. I always labled each cable pull, as stated above.

I used to be a toner which is not a bad way to go if you can fit & label the outlets first and then move on to the rack.

The other advantage if a cable box is too short you can use it for a shorter run without re labelling etc.
Or if some one decides to add extras and its going to mess up your labelling scheme.

It is always a good idea to keep track of your groups i.e. 1-24 25-48 so you’re not toning all the cables just the group you want.

Also it makes it easy to trim all the cables at the rack to the same length making them easier to manage. I always use a comb so when toning the cables are placed through the comb not needing to mark the cables when sorting.

Toning out is always the best way when you have inherited a mess form someone else.

However I have turned into a cable labeller of late
Because we never seem to get the time anymore we always have guys fitting off the field when the rack is been fit off.

The Panduit laser labels aren’t a bad idea saves you from those nines that are really sixes.

And often construction programs don’t suit your program you are always waiting on joinery to go in so you can fit the outlets makes it harder to tone out and adds double handling.

I think the most important thing is do what is easiest some jobs may be easier to label the cables and others may be easier to bell out the cables later.

And most importantly don’t make things too hard for yourself. I.e. having different coloured cables for voice and data after all the whole idea of having a SCS to make things easy after all it is just cable that supports both voice and data who cares what colour the cable jacket is. The same goes for having telephone outlets terminated in different spots for telephone and data.

Welcome to the board jettech!

marking the cable start is the only way to do it whether or not you work alone or not and you dont have to run back and forth.And not with a sharpie!
I use rite-on lables (part #514ref hellermann-tyton)and use standerd 1-whatever.Doing this I can spot where my number is quickly and there is no rub-off.Less mistakes and saves time.and never cut back cables.you are asking for dubs and waste more time.
after terminating(panal end) you put on panduit lables.I also put the panduit lables on the jack end while I jack.
The goal for me is to make it easier for the IT's to make patches.(to use what you sold them)

I tone with a voice tagger that I made an adapter for network jacks. I can tone 8 wires at a time by the time I get those 8 done I give my fingers a break while a move toner to next 8 jacks. The job I just did had 11,000' wire 98 drops total I did complete job alone in 43 hours
https://www.sundance-communications.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/19/t/000947.html

why tone it if you can already have it labled for pull#'s. the time it takes to tone you could be putting the cable on the panal.

Jamey

Precisely.

I work alone also. But for big jobs it is easier and cheaper less stress and I have found quicker to get a hand for the terminations because you don't have to run back and forth plugging in the tester. Also having a hand you get three times as much done than if you where alone. Cable ID is easier terminations and other things are done quicker.
As to marking cable I only mark on jobs greater than 10 cables

K.I.S.S.---> always label with Sharpie both ends, punchdown in order, label jacks V1/D1, map floor plan in numerical order.

If cables are added later ..say additional cable to V3/D3 it will become labeled as V3b/D3b, V3c/D3c...etc. Use a seperate punch block for added cables, I never used open area on an already established punch block for adds unless they are a new area completely then I increment to the next number.

I also have done multiple floors by starting with 100+, 200+ 300+ for floors 1 2 3. ie.. cable on second floor is V2XX/D2XX.

Hello everyone!

This topic was the first one that grabbed my attention as I browsed the forums. At first I was a bit surprised that it was even asked. Then as I poured over the posts and other areas in the forums I realized that we have every size and type of business represented here.

I work for a company that does mainly State and Federal Government and Schools/Colleges. We do everything from new construction to remodels to simple "adds".

In 90% of our work, we "MUST" label each cable with a sharpie for our pulls, since we are following prints in which we provide the customer (not to be confused with the client) gets a final print showing all locations by designated address location.

For example, the latest state building I am on we Label each wire for the correct location with a sharpie. For example 1-20 this would represent Panel 1, Location 20. The Print would read as 1W-1-20 for that location on the first floor (1st floor 'west') and would be designated as such in the IDF/MDF as well as the location plate itself.

We would in no way be efficient in pulling cable if we had to tone. For example, in this particular building we has a new Lead Tech who had never done such a large job (3000 jacks) and he thought that by "toning" he would be ok. Instead, he caused two extra days of work because we had to tone over 150 lines to get them correctly identified to match the print!

We are talking about 64 man-hours of time for us to have two teams to tone out what should have been correctly marked then pulled! Lots of lost dollars in man-hours for that mistake!

But on the other hand I can see where if you are doing simple 'adds' you could very well pull then tone, but I still see lost time in toning. Why not simply just label, pull, and punch? Anytime you add in an extra step, it is extra man-hours, which means more money expended to do the job. Personally, I think it makes more since to tag your pulls and go.

I would say that marking the cable both ends is the extra step resulting in more man hours .

as you point out it is a size of job issue .

we mostly do less than 50 drops at a time

I label the box the same # as the cable and use a sharpie to label the cable and I write it 3 times about 6 inches apart incase it get rubbed off or is just hard to read.

Here's My problem with keeping them in order. You have just finished job, are labeling last jack, customer says "oh we forgot 3 runs" Those 3 runs are in room 3 and 4, but panel is full to 41. There goes all your order right out the window. We don't tag first for several reasons.
1. It takes more time to tag everything
2. It takes more time to sort through as
you terminate
3. You have to test anyway, if you tone first you are making 2 trips to all locations.
4. Pull, terminate, test and tag.

Toshiba Bob I like the idea about using letters when cables are addad. We have used that and we get calls that data 3 isn't working drive to site and find that it was 3d. I don't know why but itseems to mess up the customer.

While pulling cable back in the day (I do miss it sometimes) I never once thought, “Oh, I’ll just tome ‘em out after the fact.” I don’t see the need to do the extra footwork. If I pulled just 2 cables, I’d still label on the box and then the cable in 2 or 3 spots on with a Sharpie, One and 2. (Spelling out one, six, nine, ten, etc. rather than using the numeric symbol)

By reading some of these posts I’m thinkin’ some ya’ll are making things with labeling more difficult than it needs to be… (Especially toning out large jobs IMO) During the years I slung cable I never once had a customer / end-user that wanted the cable itself labeled. Reading through some of these post is really puzzling me. Are there really customers that want the CABLE itself labeled? :confused: The jack faceplates labeled of course. The patch panel labeled… err, and labeled to match the far end of course, all of ‘em wanted that.

I got kind-a all corn-fused up on one of my first larger scale cabling gigs. Fortunately the guy I was working with got me straitened out. The job was an entire floor of cubicles. I don’t remember the exact numbering scheme the customer wanted but it went something like this:
3-N-(1 thru 10) data
3-N-(1 thru 10) voice
3-NE-(1 thru 10) data
3-NE-(1 thru 10) voice
3-E-(1 thru 10) data
3-E-(1 thru 10) voice
3-SE-(1 thru 10) data
3-SE-(1 thru 10) voice
3-S-(1 thru 10) data
3-S-(1 thru 10) voice
3-SW-(1 thru 10) data
3-SW-(1 thru 10) voice
3-W-(1 thru 10) data
3-W-(1 thru 10) voice
3-NW-(1 thru 10) data
3-NW-(1 thru 10) voice

* 3 represented the 3rd floor
* The alpha character represented the quadrant on the floor space N=North; NE=north east etc.
* The 1 – 10 would have been the drop number.
* Data was Cat 5
* Voice was Cat 3

The more ‘sperienced tech leading the job told me to set up and label 10 boxes of data and 10 boxes of voice cable and handed me my own copy of the floor print. Let’s get started pulling. So what did I do…? I took a Sharpie and started writing “3-N-1 data” and “3-N-1 voice” on the cable box and on the cable itself three times. I remember thinkin’ “Great gobs of Sharpie ink! This is going to take freakin’ forever, just to label!” :scratch:

The lead on the job and gave me some valuable OJT education… “Just write ONE on the first cable, 2 on the second… 3 on the third…and so on,” he tells me. “Then mark YOUR copy of the floor print with a ONE next to cube location 3-N-1, 2 next to 3-N-2.” Voice cable is grey, and data cable is white, no need to worry about getting those mixed up. It will all sort out pretty quick and easy when it’s time to terminate. … And it did. Had the customer NOT specified their own labeling scheme it would have went even slicker! We could have just terminated everything and labeled as we went during testing.

The entire point if this long-winded thesis is “Don’t worry about WHAT the cable is labeled.” You can label the faceplates and patch panel something different and more logical AFTER the fact.

Guess I was not entirely clear. When we mark a cable we K.I.S.S.

The marking scheme is simple. If the print location is 2W-4-14, then we mark the cable 4.14 to make it fast and simple. it takes virtually no time to mark cables. Depending on the cable we are pulling and type of site, we will pull from 12 to 35 cables per pull! By the end of the day, we may pull 100 - 150+ cables per team.

As I stated in my first post, toning that many wires takes a LOT of man-hours since our sites have hundreds of cables in the trays!

In small offices, sure, you can tone, but I can mark up the cable faster than you could tone end to end. I am assuming most here doing small locations work solo, or at most with one other. No matter how you cut it, toning takes more time. And as Bryan noted, you can use any scheme to mark your cable that you want, if it makes since to you and those who work with you.

To mark 10 cables takes maybe 30 seconds.

To tone 10 cables takes at least 2 minutes or more. Time goes up as density of cables goes up! In addition, if you are toning by yourself, walking to location from the IDF/MDF adds to that time. If you are using two people, you have to multiply that time taken to tone by 2 to get the real man-hour cost.

By the way, most customers do not care about cables being marked or not, they just want to have a clear print so they can make their interconnections accurately at the IDF/MDF and location. Marking or toning is just our opportunity to make more money by being able to service more customers/clients. In any given man-hour.

Doesn't BICSI "suggest" a machine-generated label on the cable itself behind the jack at the WAO as well as behind the patch panel?

We usually pull up to about 14 cables per man at a time. We mark the cable and box with a Sharpie, using the finished name per blueprints. Even though we try to keep our panels organized, by the end of the job the customer usually has adds, so total organization goes right out the window.

Bill

Well, it depends.

I just did a job today with 15 drops of triple cat5 (1 phone and 2 data) and I did NOT pre-label. On a job this small it is easier for ME to tone and label when I am dressing them into the rack and backer board.

On bigger jobs I definitely pre-label everything.

I have always tried to label a print (hand drawn or whatever), put the number of the cable on the box/reel, mark the cable with that number....pull the longest runs first, write the number on the other end of the cable...cut and check off the print.
While speed of installation may be great and profitable today, the quality of installation will speak for itself tomorrow as newtecky found out and the customer has to pay for latter.

We pull mostly quads and usually quite a few when we do it. I always use a write-on cable label to mark the cables. It's white and stands out much better than sharpie. It's faster because you only have to mark it once and you don't have to worry about the sharpie smudging.

We always mark the wire on both ends with the correct jack number using a machine generated label. Lately our customers have been asking for this kind of labeling.

Quality doesn't cost....It pays.

We pull up to 40 runs at a time and ALWAYS label the runs. White for voice and Blue for data and mark the location number on a copy of the floor plan, as well as inside the box. After certification the cable maps and certification details are put into plastic sleeves and a binder to be left (for the customer to loose) in the T.C.. Sharpies work well if the painters don't cover you up. Blue masking tape over the lable comes off easily and protects the label from those guys with their spray guns.The map removes doubt and makes a cut-over a breeze.