I have an odd problem with my line. The phone works fine, the fax machine does not and you can hear what sounds like a radio station broadcast. This occurs only at one of my outlets. The fax machine had worked in the past but stopped about a week past.

Do you know if there is a radio station really close to you? I have seen interference if the station is really close and have to put a filter on your line.

Doesn't work how? Can't send, receive or both? Have you verified DT at the jack? The radio interference, unless it's real bad shouldn't effect the fax. Plug in a phone and call someone, do you still hear the radio? Most of the time it will go away on a termination. (edit) missed the "phone works" sorry. Sounds to me like a fax machine problem.


[This message has been edited by justbill (edited April 21, 2005).]

Thanks for the reply. There are a good number of towers out here. I will try the filter to see if it has any benefits. Strange that it would work and then suddenly stop.

Thanks for the reply. My fax machine was flaking out (paper feed problems) so I thought it could be having transmission issues as well when this started. Unfortunately, the new machine feeds the paper great, but still no connection.

Do you hear the fax tone? Could it possibly be the way you have the new one optioned? Again I'd call someone from the fax, or just call another line if you have one and listen for noise that could kill the fax. I'd think you would get some kind of fax error if there were a line problem.

Does it at least play a good radio station?

Good point - maybe someone could instruct me in installing speakers.

Thanks for the reply. No fax tone - it thinks that the line is being used/off the hook (I guess because of the radio transmission/line noise). I just got back from buying the filter and a 50ft cable(to buy me time in case the filter doesn't work).

Just another note on radio station interference. The FCC mandates that lines must deliver a minimum standard of quality at the network iterface. If there's a local <known> radio interference source, such as a local transmitter, the telephone company should be willing to install (at their own expense), a filter to catch such interference. We have many customers in a Northern VA community that have successfully gotten the VZ to install these filters. Just remember that the telephone company only has to clean the line quality to the network interface; interference due to wiring beyond this point is your problem.

One other thing you might want to check is that wiring on this line is twisted-pair. If it's not, the telephone company's filter won't be able to clear the iterference. Red/Green/Black/Yellow cable (if that's what you have) isn't going to work for you. Consider twisted-pair cable to the fax if possible.

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Ed
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How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

[This message has been edited by ev607797 (edited April 21, 2005).]

I don't think inductive noise (radio) would make anything think there was an off hook. Most of this type of interference comes from the IW acting as an antenna. If nothing else take the fax to a friends and see if it works, if it does look for something physical on the IW, which you should be able to hear on a termination if there is, or a high resistance short, which should cause static or cutouts.

it thinks that the line is being used/off the hook (I guess because of the radio transmission/line noise).

Nahh, no way. One side of the line is open if you can't draw dial tone when the fax goes off hook. The imbalance is what causes the RF pickup. Look at the facts:

1) Machine suddenly stopped working.
2) New machine does not work either.

Unless they put a new transmitter on the air at the same time the fax machine stopped working your RF interference theory doesn't wash, if it ever did. It is normal for an unterminated line to pick up radio stations if the RF is strong enough. I get it at some locations with my butt set on monitor and even my toner probe. Go off hook and the radio station disappears and you get dial tone.

I assume you say that you plugged a phone into the jack and it worked? Then I would take a good look at the jack itself (probably replace it) as well as the line cord going to the fax. Has to be there.

-Hal

Ok - first, thanks for all the replies. All is working fine, here's what I did. I replaced the jack because I noticed upon removal that it wasn't flush with the faceplate (looked as if it had been hit with something). I have a couple of office chairs with wheels (home office) and kids that love to roll around on them....so, perhaps... This did not give me dialtone, but did seem to get rid of the interference. I was also researching and came across a tech doc that mentioned some fax machines require a two conductor phone cable instead of a four conductor cable. I changed out the cable and now have dialtone. Never would have thought this would be an issue.

Thanks Hbiss and everyone else who replied - if you guys could have seen it, it would probably have been a no-brainer for you all. I appreciate your patience for an amateur troubleshooter.

[This message has been edited by tpiercelackey (edited April 22, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by tpiercelackey (edited April 22, 2005).]

just fyi it should have worked just as good with the 4wire cord. i suspect your 4wire cord was open one side causing an unbalance allowing it to work as an antenna. and when you repld it with the 2wire you simply cured the open especially if your phone was working fine. the only time that i have seen a trouble out of the second pr in a cord was when the jack was wired alead control or once upon a time wired for a second line. ps if you were to monitor the ckt with a butt set on hook you would probably hear your radio station.

a tech doc that mentioned some fax machines require a two conductor phone cable instead of a four conductor cable.

Anything of recent vintage that uses a 2 wire cord won't have anything connected to the other pins on the line jack so this makes no sense.

I remember many years ago there were answering machines that had A-lead control on pins 3&5 for when they were used behind 1A2 systems. You had to be careful (or at least use a 2 wire line cord) if you used them behind a key system that had power on pins 3&5.

-Hal

I wouldn't have believed the cable would matter either, but here's the link to the tech doc: https://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=c00014834
I looked at the jack and cables (I'm not of the level of you guys) and for the life of me could not figure out why the cable would matter. I then justifiably cursed HP for my troubles caused by their design (and my ineptness) and faxed the docs that had stacked up.

HP doesnt say how or why it would effect service. What we can surmise is that if it is not pinned out in the fax machine because of penny additional cost and most of the time it is not . Even though the second pr (o/w or y/bk) need not be used, it is usually terminated thus adding the possibility of acting as an influence to rfi or emf/emi. In my experience i just havent seen five foot of cord generating a trouble as your describing. But i do find this basic trouble interesting. Try the cord in another telephone to see it is any good. Then do as i do and cut it in half so there is no chance of reuse. Ill still put my money on a bad cord or poorly seated plug/jack.

Probably they are taking all circumstances into account and no saying what they may be.

Only thing that I can think of is if you are using a two line jack. It is possible that with the second line on the outer pair of the line cord there could be a crosstalk issue (either the fax interfering with the second line or vice versa) because these are not twisted pairs. Had this plenty of times with runs of old 4 wire station wire that is used for two lines. Not something that will usually cause the fax not to operate though I have heard of a case where crosstalk of the CNG tone caused a fax on another line to go into receive.

-Hal

Just a quick test:

Hook up a standard phone to the jack. Go "off hook". Assuming that you have dial tone, dial a couple digits to break dial tone. Do you hear dead silence, or "radio"? If you don't hear "radio", then your fax/modem/other won't either, unless the equipment has issues. If you do hear "radio", then change the line cord and try again. If you still hear "radio", do the same test at the d-mark (point of entry for non-techies ). If you still hear "radio", then the trouble is on the service providers wire.

If the fax machine has a built in handset, then do the same test with just the fax machine at the jack.

This should help you narrow down the possibilities. Hope it helps.