I work for a Church / private school and we need to replace our aging NEC PBX phone system. It is currently supplied by a T-1 and not a PRI, but that is available if we desire.

*I* think a brand new PBX phone system would work just fine, and I'm hoping you all might have some general recommendations as to who makes good PBX phone systems? (I hope I'm not opening Pandora's Box and, effectively, asking who makes the best car...).

:-)

*I* think a new PBX would be just fine, because:

1.) Cost is an issue
2.) The end users do very little moving within the organization; once they've been assigned a desk they typically stay there for their duration of employment
3.) We'd like to use our existing wiring infrastructure that's already in place and in good shape (the Church was built in 1999)
4.) I can't think of any compelling "whistles & bells" that would come with either a new IP/PBX or VoIP system that could justify the price.

Since I can't call a "Sales Reps" and get an honest answer on who makes a good system, I thought I'd do the reverse; I'd ask the folks who have to repair the stuff!

I welcome your thoughts, suggestions, and feedback.

Thank you...Happy New Year!

Ed

Rather than trying to pinpoint a particular system (I'm partial to Toshiba) - why not try to pinpoint a *good* telecommunications company in your area - one that's been around for a long time, and is likely to be around much longer.

You'd be better off with a mediocre system that is well supported by excellent techs than the best phone system that the techs don't know how to program and support correctly.

Personal recommendations from companies in your area that have had new phone systems installed will be far more valuable than the biased opinions of techs... (in my biased opinion!)

Also, look for a phone system that *can* be integrated with VOIP phones, and Voicemail to Email applications - you might not need it now, but if the system you purchase *has* these capabilities, you are probably buying a relatively newer system...

And, switch to a PRI - you'll have a few advantages there... Caller ID being one of them. But any decent phone system will handle T1 *or* PRI.

As for cost - you can get these cheapy 'Made in Hong Kong' phone systems that are incredibly cheap, but no-one else can program. I recently replaced one of these type systems ... the company had bought it less than a year ago... multiple problems... spend the money for a well known and established phone system - it's cost a tad more upfront - but you'll amortize the cost over 15-20 years or more.

You want to find a good vendor that is going to support your system for the long haul. All of the high quality phone systems will do the same bells and whistles. Think about what you want your system to do. Do you want options such as wireless phones for workers to carry around with them? Do you have enough DID numbers with your existing system?

What kind of NEC system do you have? You may want to pursue the newest addition of NEC.

Thank you gentlemen!

Ben - Can you recommend a Toshiba system (so I can start doing a little research as to costs, etc.)?

Most of the maintenance (changing jumpers when employees change desks, etc.) we would (ideally) LIKE our I.T. person to handle, but if we need to call an outside contractor in to handle would certainly be O.K. since I don't think we'd need that very often.

The only thing I can think we'd need would be voicemail and if the voicemail feature could work with Microsoft Exchange (were running Exchange 2010 but will be upgrading to Exchange 2013 very soon), that would be great. The users are used to getting the voicemail message sent in the form of a .wav file attached to an e-mail (but an .MP3 would be even better).

Crisco3 - We do not have any wireless phones, and I don't think people need them. Also, I don't remember which NEC phone system we have but I'm told it's about 25 years old (it was donated) and I think we're pretty much at its capacity.

We have about 100 phones and probably need (allowing for growth) maybe 150 phones?

Ed

NEC can so all that and at great price PLUS you can get a discount for having an NEC and get a loyalty discount. Look at a good company (first) then worry about product and price. Also look at FUNCTIONALITY. If your system has been in for years, and you like it, build on that and make it the same, extensions and all. Make sure to look at PRI. 911 considerations, DID numbers and caller ID are all very nice things to have. Good luck!

The key to a good telephone system is support and that will only come through a qualified dealer in your area. We just replaced an AT&T system in a Methodist church, here in our area with an ESI system and the people can't believe how user friendly and feature rich the system is. When the pastors were done with their training session, they were absolutely amazed with the record on the fly feature and how easy it is to use. This install was 205 phones and two PRI lines. The two senior pastors were so excited about the remote phone features and the chief maintenance engineer couldn't thank us enough when we replaced all the outside door locks with readers and strikes. No more "phantom keys" to worry about.

Make a good list of what your church and school want and need in a system and then invite some local dealers in your area to propose systems. "Where two or three salesmen are gathered together and bidding against each other, there will be honesty." ;-)

Rcaman

As has already been said above,....... it's all about who you buy from rather than brand.
Although,.... I am partial to the Avaya IPO as that is what we sell and service and find it to be a real work horse.

Avaya won't be the cheapest, but do your research (as you seem to be) and make sure you are comparing apples to apples before making your decision.

Oh,..... and welcome to the board.

I have to laugh at that comment- or at least at what I think he is trying to say. It's amazing how everybody has been brainwashed into thinking that the only viable solution today is IP and he needs to justify something else in order to buy it. For that you can thank your IT guy and his buddies because it's the only thing they know.

Yes Virginia, TDM systems are still alive and well and are much easier to implement, maintain and use than IP systems. Cheaper too. Just don't think an IT company is going to sell you one.

-Hal

I wish I could add more to the conversation but everyone has already covered the key points.

You mentioned you had an NEC, what is causing you to shy away from that? What is causing you to actually think you need a new system? What type of Nec do you have?

What strikes me as odd was that you are currently dealing with people you can't trust? When was the last time you had the technician out and went over what you needed. You mentioned you want your IT guy to admin the system. Why not let a phone guy admin it? I would guarantee you could save a ton of frustration for only a couple of hundred dollars every year or two. You may even find out that for a small fraction of the price of a new system a well versed tech can breathe new life into your existing system

Maybe what I alluded to above wasn't clear. If you want a cost effective solution, a proper installation with competant support and service an IT guy is going to be your enemy.

-Hal

I have a customer that lets their IT guy handle the phones as part of his job.

So when he calls us in and he is there they are paying both of us .... it makes no sense.

I just lost a little deal because the customer had to have an IP system .... they are a tiny little office with one location and no remote workers. When we discussed which phone instruments they needed the small basic phone was fine for them as they were very simple. Then the IT guy got their ear and they bought expensive IP Phones.

Many of the digital systems have IP capability anyway .... the ESI systems do IP trunking, IP Phones and IP Links to other sites .... while offering 99.999% reliability and uptime along with no network issues.

Unfortunately IP is "cool"and that old TDM stuff and the old guy in the truck are dinosaurs that don't have a clue until IT discovers they are in way over their head and can't really address basic voice issues. We just installed a new system in a site that was an early adopter of IP. They actually went back to TDM for most of the phones due to their reliability and simplicity. They use IP phones for remote workers. A perfect marriage.

As we tell new prospects, if there are any issues in your netowrk, VoIP will help you discover them.

I'm not a salesman, I'm a tech... but if I were asked to configure such a system, I'd put you in:

CIX670 Cabinet
Expansion Cabinet
BCTU2a Processor
T1 or PRI card
Enough station cards to handle your phones (BDKU/BDKS Cards)
IES16 Voicemail (Wav & Mp3 files can be sent)
Various licensing...

This is really something that you'll want to have local dealers bid on, the salesmen will be happy to come out, configure and quote you what they'd install.

Just be very clear upfront with all the feature requests you want to have.

Take this from one of those "IT" guys that is the admin of the phone system.

Ensure that the place you purchase from is very experienced with the product you are looking at.

If you wish to have a look at my trials, peek in the Cisco forum and read about my adventure.

I did not push the VOIP system, I was happy with the functionality of our Toshiba systems, we just out grew them and needed more features for remote sites, which is how we ended up with the VOIP in the end.

If you are a single location, I would look at a regular system and stay away from VOIP. Though I am not familiar enough with the pbx systems out there to know which would tie into your Exchange server.

If you are going to look at VOIP, realize that you will most likely have to rewire the entire shop. Along with purchasing new network gear to support the phones. Which will get expensive fast, if your IT guy cannot do it themselves.

Coming from the IT guy, stick with what works and stay away from the latest and "greatest", there is a reason your system has run for 25 years....

well said ...... i believe i may be referring people to this post right here....