I have a sub who is having an issue with caller id and no one seems to know the answer. He is a winback from a reseller and his dialtone was provided to him previously on T1 or ISDN Prime. He switched to us in Oct. and on 6 of his lines, intermittantly, caller id does not work. There is no rhyme or reason to the trouble. It has been proven into the Siemens switch in the office, but no one seems to know how to fix it. For giggles, we tested other lines in the office, and the caller id never failed. Translations are correct on these lines. Help!!

previously a pri? now analog?

how are the lines being handed off their switch?

you need to post more detail.

previous carrier? new carrier?

if analog, voltage?

^^^
I agree with rustynails, more info is needed to narrow this down (be long winded, it helps here ).

How intermittent? (i.e. - 1 out of 5 calls, or once a day/week/etc.)

Is it one single C.O. line that has the problem... or multiple?

(If it is one single POTS, then swap it with another C.O. position, to see if the problem follows the line)

Who is the new/old provider & how many total lines/CKT's?

It is affecting at least 7 lines. It is intermittant. One line failed after one test. Another worked 25 times, and failed on the 26th. Previous carrier was AT&T Legacy. New carrier is at&t. As far as how it worked previously, I could only go by what the customer thinks it worked on(he said T1). We can not located old facilities. Office equipment has been changed, but problem followed it. I have spent parts of 4 days on this and at first, was sure the trouble was in the customers system. I initially tested each line 5 times with no failure. It was only when I tested on line 20 times, when I saw the info. was not getting to the test set. Again, the trouble has been proven into the central office. Spent all day yesturday testing all lines and they all failed at one point or another. They are all regular pots lines. This job has been escalated to the Siemens switch people, so I may never find out what the trouble was. Almost seems to me as though the data burst is either not being sent, or getting lost somewhere. I apologize, but my c.o. knowledge is very limited.

As long as you know the problem occurs at the Demarc, without the CPE attached, then your knowledge of the C.O. can end there

My next suggestion, was buy "X" - CID units (X = # of lines) and wire them ahead of the CPE and at the end of the day compare the info on them, with the info stored on the system and see what the difference is.

Good luck, hope they fix it!

Let us know if they detail the problem for you.

Distance from CO can cause intermitten CID failure, although I wouldn't think that would be the case here. You say the troubles been proven to the CO. Your job is done. We do have several CO techs on the board, maybe one of them will have an idea.

I agree the problem is no longer mine, having proved it into the central office, I just thought someone, somewhere may have come across a problem like this. We were on the line with tech support in the Siemen switch, and they were no help. Just trying to take care of the customer.

When you say that you proved the problem to the C.O. are you saying that the tech in the C.O. actually got the failure at the frame or are you saying you got the failure at the demarc? I never ran across an intermittent Caller ID being caused by the switch, although my experience has been limited to DMS & 5E. I strongly suspect the local loop.
Use a basic (cheap) Caller ID box to prove things at the demarc. That is what the phone company tech will use. Iif he doesn’t get a failure on his set, he probably going to give the problem back to you. Good luck.

I am the outside tech for at&t. I proved it is intermittantly not working at the oe.

By failure, do you mean ALL info is not received, or SOME info is not received?

What does the CID display say?

Can you monitor the lines with a butt-set or equivalent, and try to hear the FSK being delivered? Do you hear it at all, on a failure?

I monitor it with my caller id feature built in to my laptop. It just rings with no information at all.

That is not a conclusive method.

Read my questions again.

Loop current, circuit loss, or imbalanced line can cause caller ID problems on a POTS line. Take a Sidekick T & N and test for load coils. Load coils are generally added to long loops to extend the range of telephone service and need to be properly spaced for correct operation of Caller ID. Signs to look for: excessively Low volume(customer can't hear), excessively high volume, hum in line. Loop current should ideally be between 23ma to 35ma and circuit loss ideally around -5.5db, when calling the 1KC Tone from the LOCAL co.

If you will fill out one of Sandman's Telephone Line Diagnostic Table https://www.sandman.com/files/teldiagchart.pdf
on a known working line then the bad line I promise it will stand out like sore thumb.

KYTIEDOWN:

Exactly my point that I was going to make next, had he told me the answer to question #3.

Without knowing all the parameters of the lines, he's going to be frustrated. A laptop is the last thing I would have thought of as test equipment. I guess I'm getting old.

Here's a nice tool to use WITH the laptop:

https://www.adventinstruments.com/products/p-5120.htm

My first remote diagnosis, from a supine position watching the History Channel, is "load coils." My second is "bridged taps."

Are there usually load coils in the central office? My company issued laptop, with a caller id unit built in, is all I am given to test with. It is the sub who is frustrated, not me.

Well, they will between the customers demarc and the co. Specifically, the coils are placed at 3000' intervals from either end, and at 6000' intervals along the wire. Load coils boost the strength of the voice frequency range (300 - 4000Hz)

The trouble is in the central office, coming straight out of the switch. The outside lines have no effect as they have been removed for testing.

So did someone test for the failure at the co? Where did you test at the demarc(nid)?

Can't be much clearer than this.

Have any of our CO techs seen this problem out of a switch that can help out Phony?

OK, then to rephrase your initial message (if I may presume to do so):

1. We have intermittent CID failures on all NEWLY INSTALLED lines JUST FOR THIS ONE SUB.

2. We have lines OPEN at the MDF for testing, and we still get failures.

3. We have changed the OE's as a precaution.

4. The trouble follows the numbers, not the OE's.


Here are some questions:

1. Are you aware, or can you determine, if other subs are having the same problem, but perhaps not reporting it, due to its intermittent nature? Some subs do not have the same level of tolerance for intermittent problems with ancillary features.

2. While you were at the CO (laptop plugged into the MDF, I assume) you say the outside lines were "removed." Do you mean that the heat coils were pulled while you ran your tests?

3. Did you happen to dial 20 or 30 test calls to any OTHER randomly-chosen lines in the same carrier? Other carriers?

4. When the OE's were changed, were they changed to ports that were in other carriers of the switch?

5. When you ran the tests, did you dial from random calling number(s), always the same calling number(s), official numbers, sub's numbers?

High or low loop current can cause the data burst to get "lost" or "garbled" between the customers Demarc or NID and the CO. I'm not really sure I understand where your test point was, so its really hard for us to diagnose.

Wow. I think he knows what he's doing. He just wants to know if anyone else has seen this problem out of a switch.

Arthur has a valid point, test other lines out of the same CO to see if they fail intermittently also.

Bottom line it's been proven to the CO and Phony would like to know if anyone's seen this problem before.

He says the lines were "removed" at the MDF. Waiting for confirmation that he means the coils were pulled.

Now that we have filtered the facts, I suspect the CO is acting up in general, not just on his lines.

I have turned off the TV, and am eagerly awaiting the next set of answers.

He said he was an outside tech. They usually don't do testing at the co. Wrong assumption. Have a good night justbill

You can try to have your switch tech remove and rebuild the features in the switch. Also sent you a PM

I have tested other lines in the central office, at the Office equipment, with the outside lines off and got no failure. This was also my assumption, that others just did not care that this was haapening. I have been working with a c.o. tech with 40 years experience in this switch and has never seen this trouble. Rest assured when, and iff this gets corrected, and I am made aware of what is the cause, I will let you know here what we have found.

I think this would fit better in the Telephone service category. Going to leave it here also since there've been so many replys. Don't want anyone to think it got lost.