I've done a lot of research but can not find a telephone system which meets the following requirements for a home system:

Handles at least two outside CO lines.

Default upon picking up phone is an available CO line.

Internal station to station calling after dialing 9 (or some other digit) for internal call (home run wiring is present)

[in other words, the reverse of the normal situation where you can dial an internal call upon picking up the handset but must dial 9 for an outside line]

Internal call to ALL phones

Transfer outside calls internally with announce or send direct to extension.

Uses standard analog phones -- no special or proprietary phones needed.

Page to Public Address Speaker (amplifier)

There are some other features which would be nice, but these are the major ones.

The "pick up and automatically get next external line" and having to dial 9 [or other digit] for the internal network" seems impossible to find, as is the ability to use regular phones.

I'm trying to set up a sophisticated home telephone network which looks like normal residential (e.g. uses standard phones) and operates like normal residential (e.g. pick up phone, get outside line) and only special features (e.g. station to station calling) require special keystrokes.

Any system out there meet these requirements?

Im not sure about the other systems, but a Toshiba CTX28 would be able to handle that request. Actually, any system should be able to do all those and more. Since you want to use analog phones with no programmable buttons, to use features, you would have to memorize a lot of access codes.

The Talkswitch does all that.
See www.Talkswitch.com.

The CTX28 (now replaced with the CIX40) can handle a maximum of 2 analog ports. You could do this with a CIX100, but at a higher cost.

I would think most newer systems could do this as long as they have enough analog ports.

Johnny Cakes,

to the board.

You have a unique request, indeed.

Please take the time to complete your profile so that we may know who we are assisting.

Had you thought of Plexar (centrex) service?

Hope you have a good time here on the board.

Hey, you guys are fast AND knowledgeable. I had looked at the TalkSwitch but stopped reading after it described dialing 9 for an outside line, or 8x for a specific outside line. After reading Michael Paul's message, I read further in the manual and discovered the "Direct Line Access" function, so it appears that it would address my needs.

Thanks everyone!

Johnny you are asking for the impossible If you get CO dial tone when you pickup handset then the 9 will be sent to tel. line.
If you use a system with call routing you could manage this or use a key phone with intercom button

LOL, of course you are right, although I did say "or other digit" and a system could listen for and intercept the * or # keypress.

TalkSwitch uses the switchhook "flash"

I want to say a little more about the Talkswitch.

Right out of the box you can dial another extension directly, and you have to dial 9 to get an outside line. But you can reconfigure it to get an outside line immediately. Then to dial another extension you have to press the Flash key first. For instance for the first extension you would press "Flash-1-1-1".

It works with plain old phones, plain old wireless phones, plain old fax machines and proprietary Talkswitch phones as well as some other proprietary phones.

See www.Talkswitch.com.

Panasonic 848 system.

I noticed that there are plenty of suggestions here, since it appears that the list of features "looks" pretty simple. This feature list is a bit more complicated than it appears. Read a little deeper........Read it two or three times like I have done. Then the original post doesn't seem so easily resolved.

"The system must use single-line analog sets".

This means that upon going off-hook using a Scooby-Doo phone, CO dial tone is received.

The request is that some digit can be dialed to disconnect the station from the CO line and connect the station to intercom dial tone. Note that the word "digit" is used, not flash key, hold button or speed dial key.

Everybody here has their favorite brand of systems to sell. Upon reading the initial post, it's not to much of a list, so your favorite system will fit the bill. Key phrase: Single Line Telephone. That's where it gets complicated.

I know that this type of thing can be accomplished using a bunch of relays, Viking devices, some 1A2 cards and complicated wiring, but if there is a system out there that REALLY addresses this laundry list, I will be impressed.

A good knowledgeable tech can figure out a way to get almost anything to work and as posted, there are a lot of people in that category. HOWEVER, in my opinion you are walking a line that could end up with a very unhappy customer and a bad reputation for you.

Remember you are the expert and you need to educate your customer on the advantages and disadvantages of what they want. An unhappy customer is going to tell 10 people a happy one will tell two. Be careful.

Oy Vey! A wish list is a wish list. A requirement is a requirement.

There are many systems that will satify the needs of this person. This is a small sale that will generate small profit.

A sale this small does not equate to jumping through hoops, but rather a small scale install. When you want to buy something this small, you are either flexible or not a customer.

I'm with connextions1 on this one.

Instead trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, re-educate the client. They will thank you in the end for being a professional.

You have hit the nail on the head. In my perfect world, I would love to be able to press # or *, rather than the flash hook, to disconnect from the CO line and go to internal dialing and/or features. But there seems to be no such system, at least off the rack without getting into exotic customization.

While I certainly appreciate all the suggestions and help, as the "customer" in this thread, I'm kind of surprised by some of the attitudes that have been expressed. I think it is important to listen carefully to what the customer wants (as ev607797 obviously did) and work towards a solution which addresses the maximum number of those needs as possible. Obviously all needs may not be able to be met, but that doesn't mean the customer was wrong.

Get 2 line analog telephones. Make line 1 get CO dial tone and line 2 get system dial tone when you go off hook.

I guess I am wondering why you would be so adamant about using the S/L phones, as that is where the trouble arises. You could easily do this with limited-function system phones like the Partner 6 button. Most manufacturers have a similar "limited function" phone for use in break rooms, etc...
As soon as you remove the S/L phone requirement, almost any system can do it.
With S/L phones, you will be forever punching in feature codes.

This is a upscale residential application, where aesthetics is the most important consideration. A business-look phone would be unacceptable, as would having to tell guests to "dial 9."

The idea is a sophisticated phone system but which is invisible to the user. This seems to be a pretty untapped market.

This issue is this.
If the sets are programmed to auto-CO select when they go off hook, then any digit dialed is going out over the CO.
Especially in a residential application, why would you want to have to type in feature codes every time you wanted to place a call on hold or transfer it? I would think that you would want to make things more simple for the user, not more complicated. Do you want to have to memorize and type in codes and extension numbers all the time?
There are some very nice looking system phones out there. I bet with some shopping around, you would be able to find something that is aesthetically pleasing while still having the functionality to allow easy use, such as "press the button marked 'outside line' to make a call", and "press the button marked 'kitchen' to call the kitchen." That strikes me as a lot easier than "dial *819 for the kitchen".
Just my thoughts.

I understand everything that you are getting at here. Now, I find it kind of odd that you mention that it is an "upscale residential application" and do not want to think about a phone system with digital sets. The facts are that most truly upscale residential applications (IE: large houses and mini resorts) have true phone systems. Some manufacturers make systems specially for large houses, these include (but are not limited to) Vodavi and Panasonic.

Just go into a large home or watch TV and you will see it. Hulk Hogan has a Panasonic system (and a Vodavi before if I remember correctly), and on multiple other programs you will see these phones. I have several customers with large houses, two have Panasonic systems, two have Norstar systems, and several more have Comdial systems.

I understand that it might be trouble to have to dial 9, and you do not have to on most systems with digital phones, you can program them the way that you would like. However, they really should be proprietary phones to do what you would like. Though, it is worth remembering that many people are actually very used to dialing 9 when making an outside call. They have been made used to it by hotels, businesses and resorts of all sizes.

I know that a "business look phone" is not what you are looking for; but consider the following. I recently took a cruise on Carnival cruises, they had Siemens phones in every room, even the most expensive suites. Now, I sell Siemens phones so I liked that. It is worth noting that the Siemens "Entry" phone is a small phone that is not inherently business like, this is the phone that they provided in the rooms. Look at all the models of phones available for a system, some like the Siemens entry phone, or the Avaya 6 button partner phone are not a true business application phone, they are ment for common areas, not the desk.

I get your idea of an "invisible system" but to be frank most people willing to spend the money that a phone system (a true phone system) costs are very happy to get digital phones with all of the bells and whistles that come with them. It is just not possible to program a SL phone to do most digital applications, you can with long codes, but people do not like codes for the most part.

Steve

I think steve nailed it, it is a lot eaiser to dial 9 then it is to remember a bunch of codes. Have you ever looked at Panasonics wireless Systems?

https://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/w... 2&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

They have good looking cordless phones.

Another reason to stay away from residential

All right - how about Avaya IP Office? Through short-codes, you could have all the "functions" of the system changed to #-codes, or *-codes, and route anything starting with 1 through 9 and 0 as dial the number out over the outbound lines.

Kind of like Centrex with "assume-9" dialing, when you want to use Centrex features like calling another Centrex line, you dial # and the last 4 digits, but outbound you just dial normally.

TTT,
I am not familiar enough with the IP Office, but does it have the capability of being mostly (if not all) analog phones? That is a BIG part of the requirement that is being given....sounds like a good idea though if it can!

Steve

IP 406 base unit includes 2 "POT" phones (pots, analog), but then you can add a POT-16 expansion module, for an additional 16 analog extensions.

I would run the senario past a good IP programmer, but I don't see why not.

There is no DIGIT (0-9) that does not begin some public phone number. However I once programmed a system that would connect you to an extension if two or three digits were dialed and then no other digit was pressed for five seconds. If you had such a system, you could dial 310, and then just wait five seconds. Then it would connect you to extension 310.

Jonny Cakes, My impression is that you want a phone system that seems like an ordinary home phone to guests, but that you could make do special things by using special codes. Is that right?

The Pan 848 will do all of it except dial a digit to release CO and give up Intercom, you would hit Flash, what diff would it make. If an Idiot can remember 9 to get intercom, an idiot can remember Flash. All this seamless to the user with single line phones is BS. Heres seamless-- you answer phone, it's for little Johnny, you holler at lil Johnny----call for lil Johnny, line 1. Or you might spy the Magic Button marked Page, press that and tell lil Johnny to get call on line 1. Oh My God, can regular folks really use rocket science???
You could even use cordless phones that have buttons marked Line 1, Line 2, Intercom, My God Jim- press Talk you get a CO Line, press Intercom you get Intercom, will the wonders of Vulcan Technology never cease???? Of course there will always be some Klingon wanting to go back to the Good Ole Days, but you can NEVER satisfy them.


:bang: :bang: :bang: :banana: :banana: :db: :db: :db:

And you left out DOOR Phone, what decent upscale home would be without. You also leave out Lighted Displays and key pads , the displays stay on even when the power is out when ups present.
Yada,Yada, Yada!!!

Touch Tone Tommy had the solution that meets all of the needs posted.

The 406 is a good match or there is the Small Office Edition depending on how many phones are needed. There is a discontinued version out there with 4 Analog CO and 8 Analog Phone ext's with 3 VCM's for VOIP phones.

Just a matter of programming the system to dial as needed. The dialtone on the IPO sounds like regular CO dialtone. With just a couple of shortcodes, you can dial anyway you want.

In our office our system is setup for dialing out directly without additional digits. If we want to make an internal call, we just dial the extension. The system knows what to do......

My question to you Johnny, How much money do you have to spend? you got 10K ready to go and I got the system.
The only thing I see will stop every system

Transfer outside calls internally with announce or send direct to extension.

There a no 2500 sets out there with a speaker to announce a call. Now if all you need is screened or blind transfer where the slt has to be answered no problem.

Internal call to ALL phones
Can't page a SLT once again no speaker.

The Toshiba CIX100 can be equipped with only analog ports, only digital, or any combination. The analog ports can be programmed to grab a CO line first and system dialtone with hookflash. I would assume there are several other brands that can be configured this way also.

Most analog phones have speed-dial capability to program feature codes, some with one-touch speed-dial buttons. You would also probably want a system that can pass caller ID to analog phones (Toshiba can do this).

Most systems I've seen offer a digital system cordless phone that doesn't look much different than most analog cordless phones and includes most or all system features.

As Paul144 said, any digit dialed will be sent to the CO line, hookflash is the only way I know to switch from CO to system dialtone.

When an analog station hookflashes on a CO line, doesn't the line go on hold in anticipation of a transfer? Doesn't that cause the extension you are calling to ring with dial tone after you hang up with them?

Junkman, on the Toshiba CIX if you program a slt to go offhook on a trunk, you can dial ** to switch to intercom.

In my opinion a properly programmed and labeled digital phone would be a lot more impressive and a whole lot simpler to use than his request,and there are plenty systems out there.A properly labeled phone and system for a demo,Would surely convince any reasonable buyer, we all know that in business aplications ,programmed feature buttons are necessary to achieve any kind of usage potential of a phone system.

Bada Bing, Bada Boom, Gene's on target.
"Would surely convince any REASONABLE buyer".
The key word here, in Mister Rogers Neighborhood,
is "Reasonable".
Hello!!! Ive found this pigs ear! I don't want to spend much money, but I want to turn this Pig's ear into a Silk Purse. Of course iI don't want it to look like a Silk Purse and I don't want anyone but myself to be able to find the opening.

There is a reason that the most successful businesses subscribe to the maxim that the customer is always right.

I've looked into the suggested systems here, and it seems that there are several exact solutions to the problem, most noteably the Avaya IP Office suggested by TTT.

As a close to exact system, with the only change being having to use the flash hook, I could use the TalkSwitch for a few hundred bucks, saving thousands.

Thanks for the help (at least those of you who tried to help instead of telling me why I was wrong for wanting what I want).

Avaya---out of production.
Panasonic does all except use hookflash.
No, the customer is not allways right.
If I were going to do this locally you would have to pay up front and sign off on how the system works and agree to accecpt it as is. Any change would be T&M.
Whenever weird parameters are set, it's been my experience that when the end product is seen and used, changes are required that are far outside of what was specified, and payment is withheld.
Been there, done that, will leave it to someone who has not. An effort was made to answer your question, which several people did. My input was
an exact match except for the hookflash, and was comprised of a low cost system that is not out of production, has the best wireless, voice mail, caller ID routingetc,etc. You can't beat a Panasonic in a house,
it's too flexible. Your not wrong for wanting your system, It's just a thing I steer clear of.
I don't think you will find a lot of successful
phone companies ready to run over and install the system you spec. or sell it, unless they get money up front, like on the Internet. Then when it has problems you get to play the Internet Game--- Heres Bob!!!!!

:confused:

When did Avaya go out of production?

Brokeda, trust me when I say that's one thing you'll never have to worry about.

Would this happen to be an apartment building application or assisted living?

Johnny,

Now that we have all had a chance to assist you, give our personal opinions, and you have expressed yours, please complete your profile so we know whom we are helping/discussing this situation with.

Thanks.

There is a reason that the most successful businesses subscribe to the maxim that the customer is always right.

You almost have it. Successful businesses know the customer is wrong but they know how to make him think he is right and take his money for the privilege. :shhh:

I find it interesting also that many times the more money a customer has the more correct they seem to think they are. I think it's really lack of respect.

-Hal

Someone suggested Avaya IP office that did analog and said it was no longer in production. Just the unit that fit the requested specs.

OK, I was just about getting confused about this thread when it woke up again. So, Brokeda, you are telling me that I can get a "Sears" SLT on this system, lift the handset, receive CO dial tone, then dial a digit that will disconnect me from the CO line and return intercom dial tone?

(No flash function or key sets were desired in the original post). This thread is drifting toward personal system preferences.

Maybe this can be done using the system you have suggested, but the digits 1-0 must be left unused for internal functions due to the fact that they are required to process CO calls in North America.

That leaves us with * and #. The suggestions made about using the IPO claim it will do this. I have to ask.......

What about CO features, such as *67 to block caller ID or *69 for return call or *57 for call trace?

Since most CO features use *, I suppose that the # key can do the CO disconnect/transfer to dial tone, but is this really possible?

This being said, how can any other system features be accessed without sacrificing the * codes for CO line features?

Call me forever the critic, but I am not buying it. I still don't think that people are really reading the original question.

For a little clarification for the ones not familiar with the programming of the IP Office.

When a user picks up the phone (unless programmed differently) they get system dial tone that sounds like standard CO dial tone.

When a use dials a number it first looks for a matching extension number, then checks through the user shortcodes, then system shortcodes, followed by least cost routing.

The default programming is set for users to dial "9" to access outside lines. This can EASILY be changed to match any dialing habits the user might want or have.

Here is an example without getting into the programming too much. In Houston, TX we have 3 local area codes and all numbers dialed are at least 10 digit dialing. Area codes 713,281, and 832 are 10 digit dial.

So to be able to dial out directly without dialing 9 first you program 3 shortcodes
281xxxxxxx
713xxxxxxx
832xxxxxxx
Each set to dial out on whatever line group you want. This will match all 10 digit dialed calls in the Houston area.
For long distance and toll free service a similar shortcode is created to do the same thing.
1xxxxxxxxxx
That will match all national calls without the need for dialing "9" first.
In the system with the above shortcodes, extensions must be assigned numbers starting with 3,4,5,6, or 2 if extension don't go beyond 280 or skip 281. 1xx extension can be used also but will cause a bit of a delay waiting to time out looking for additional digits.

All other system and/or CO features can be programmed as needed using shortcodes that can be accessed via any phone with dtmf keypad.

The IP Office is the closest thing to an exact match given the listed requirements. As it has been said by several others, many other systems would work great and possibly better if the requirements were changed slightly. (Most of the other options are also much cheaper!)

There is a model of the IP Office I mentioned that is out of production, but there are other models that will work the same. The only reason I mentioned the model I did is there are several of them out there and are cheaper than the current models.

The reason that model was discontinued, lack of sales. How many customers (other than the scenario given) really want only analog phones...

Thanks very much for the clarification, IPOfficeguy. Your answer makes a lot more sense now.