atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Any Yahoo can run cable

Got any pics of this nightmare?

Alas, no. I will try to grab some pics before I terminate the new jacks.

Carl

This is a perfect example of why TIA and BICSI standards are important in today's industry.

The Bell standards are outdated and do not address the needs of modern communications infrastructure.

Hans

I can attest to that. Most specs I see today still reference Div 16 and 17 for VDV.

I've run into that idea quite often when wiring voice and DSL extensions.

You try explaining that there's already 5 miles of POTS wiring on 40-plus-year-old cables between here and the C.O., but some people still don't get it. Somehow they seem to think that changing to CAT5 for the last 25 ft. on an extension is "essential" for DSL. :shrug:

Oh, Paul....That issue has been discussed here many times. Sometimes till we are blue in the face. I love when electricians (and I use that term loosely) wire new homes. One single run of CAT5, looping through every outlet in the house, secured with tighly-nailed cable staples and left hanging out the wall where the phone line will enter the building. Now THAT'S a high-quality engineering job that will stand the test of time!

Ed -

That single piece of wiring run in and out of every outlet was the standard wiring practice for the Bell System when doing residential (apartment house) work here in NYC in the 50's, 60's and 70's. They called it "Hague Wiring" (though I can't tell you why).

They would generally run a piece of 6 pair from jack to jack and lay it right in the deck before the concrete was poured. Both ends were brought back to the closet where the riser was brought up to the apartment. The acid in the concrete used to eat through the cable and bad pairs were always turning up.The idea was that if a pair went bad on the "North" run you could feed it in on the "South" run and make it work.

It was a damn fool way of wiring, but they did it for decades.

Yes, I understand exactly what you mean. We followed the Bell System standards for residendial prewiring long before the electricians took over. We throttled back from a six pair gray cable loop to the three pair loop using ivory colored "H sation wire". We were just following the local Bell company's same standard. Still, both ends were brought back to the protector, per Bell "Practice".

We still use drive rings for fastening cable; staples and the other crap that you see being done today in new construction by electricians were never permitted under Bell standards.

The reason that both ends were brought back to one common point was two-fold:

1. If a pair failed, since it was being fed from both ends, it would have to fail twice to affect service. This was a Bell quality concern. Not to mention that they knew that they were responsible at the time to come in and fix troubles.

2. Feeding from both ends meant that the prewire basically had double the capacity. This was especially prevalent in the 1A2 days where a creative installer could use a single 6 pair loop to support two lines WITH common audible. Splitting it open became twelve pairs that offered all kinds of options with intercom.

What electricians are doing today has absolutely nothing to do with the original Bell prewiring standards. They simply noticed that back in the day, that the Bell companies did run a continuous UNCUT loop. They didn't pay attention to the double end feed and the uncut parts.

They are just doing the job as cheaply as possible nowadays. They have no concept of how to do it correctly. They have just advanced from running JK or "quad" wire through their perrilous loop in a mansion to using CAT5e. Like that makes for a better installation!

Sure, I kin run ware! I kin run anythin' with an on-off switch! Whar in town yu want it run to? Does it need a key? (This is fun, who else wants to take a shot at trying to make a funny!) John C.